LOST: “The Incident” (Season 5 Finale)

Well, here we are: the final episode of the penultimate season of Lost. I’m pretty sure what we saw tonight qualifies as a “game changer.” Spoilers from seasons 1-5 below the fold.

Links and miscellanea

  • If you are a student at the University of North Florida, you may have watched the season 5 finale because it was on the syllabus. Tufts has also offered a course on Lost in the past.
  • According to this interview with Damon Lindelof, all character plotlines will be resolved by the end of next season, and if there is a movie, it will be in addition to the Lost universe, not an essential piece to the puzzle.
  • Stuff from the final season 5 official audio podcast: the Locke-Alpert compass, actually is in an infinite loop (and this was intentional); the ComicCon video is not canonical and doesn’t really fit within the show’s continuity; this season finale gives essential information about the central mystery to the show.
  • Here’s an interview from the Onion’s A.V. Club with Michael Emerson (Ben). And here’s one of Jorge Garcia (Hurley).
  • This Locke vs. Jacob boxing poster is a work of considerable appeal:
  • USA Today has an interview with Patrick Fischler (Phil).
  • A Cuse and Lindelof interview at the Washington Post.
  • This NY Daily News story discusses how the Lost production team keeps its many secrets. According to the article, JJ Abrams doesn’t even know spoilers. This Boston Herald piece strikes a similar chord, but also discusses the deceptive tactics involved.
  • Here’s a nice feature on the complexity of season 5′s time-traveling plot.

Observations and speculations

  • As the episode opens, Jacob is in his hovel home beneath the statue, at a spinning wheel, weaving a tapestry. Some pottery is in the corner. A fire ring burns in the center of the room, seemingly without any fuel. An Egyptian god, probably Maat, is painted on the wall above Jacob’s weaving nook. (Maat is the Egyptian goddess of truth, justice, balance, order and morality. It is Maat’s feather that Anubis uses when he weighs the heart of the deceased during the judgment in the afterlife.)
  • Cut to Jacob on the beach, hauling in a trap with red snapper, which Jacob proceeds to grill on a rock by a fire. In the distance, we see (presumably) the Black Rock off shore.
  • Another man (name unknown, pending season 6—at this point, all we know is that he’s Jacob’s nemesis) walks up and has a forced conversation with Jacob. He mentions how badly he wants to kill Jacob. This piece of dialogue is particularly significant:

    [Referring to the ship] Jacob’s Nemesis: How did they find the island?
    Jacob: You’ll have to ask them when they get here.
    JN: I don’t have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong.
    J: You are wrong.
    JN: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
    J: If it only ends once, anything that happens before that is just progress.
    JN: Do you have any idea how badly I wanna kill you?
    J: Yes.
    JN: One of these days, sooner or later, I’m going to find a loophole, my friend.

    So here we are at the end of five seasons, and it seems we’ve just now been formally introduced to two of the most important characters in the entire mythology. Apparently, everything that has happened, happened within the context of this struggle between two long-time island dwellers on a beach.

  • We get another view of the statue from the back. It appears to be holding an ankh in each hand. We see a partial view of the face, and it appears to have the mouth of a crocodile. I’m going to suggest Sobek as a possibility for the identity of the statue. It doesn’t really look like Anubis, my previous best guess. Sobek is a god of power, protection and fertility.
  • Next we see Young Kate in a corner store in Ames, Iowa, preparing to launch her life of crime. She’s with a childhood friend, Tom Brennan. (Some had speculated, based on casting information that leaked before the episode, that the “Young Tom” in the finale would be the Other Tom, aka “Mr. Friendly.” Not so.) Tom is playing with a small toy airplane. This is the same toy airplane that Kate would later rob a bank to retrieve from a safe deposit box, then later snatch from the U.S. Marshall’s Halliburton case found at the bottom of the island’s lagoon.
  • Kate steals a New Kids on the Block lunch box. How funny is that? While she’s embarking on her life of crime, Patsy Cline’s “Two Cigarettes in an Ashtray” plays over the store’s radio. Patsy Cline seems to dominate any Kate flashback.
  • We see Jacob’s first flashback appearance as he makes good with the store shopkeeper for Kate’s petty theft of NKOB merchandise. Jacob says, “Be good, Kate.” Kate is so making Jacob’s list. In fact, it looks like the passenger list for flight 815 was many years in the making, and not a coincidence at all, at least for some. It also seems that Jacob is ageless and can travel about freely and interact with all manner of folks.
  • I’m sympathetic with Sawyer’s decision to “pass” on saving the island. He makes at least one fatal mistake though—he makes the decision for both himself and Juliet, and just assumes she’ll go along with him.
  • Meanwhile, in a bomb chamber beneath Dharmaville in 2007, Sayid is studying the detailed instructions left in Faraday’s notebook. It’s just a good thing that Sayhid decided to come along because I think he’s a lot more technical than Jack. Faraday’s plan involves removing the plutonium core of the bomb, stuffing it in a backpack, then hoofing it over to the Swan site.
  • Richard confirms what we suspected last week, that Eloise is pregnant.
  • Over at the Swan site, Radzinsky and Chang are in a heated debate about whether or not to continue the drilling for the construction project. We learn that Radzinsky has been working on the electromagnetism project behind the Swan for six years, and that it will involve cutting edge science. Radzinsky came to the island, he says, to change the world.
  • When asked by Sun about Jacob, Ben says that Jacob “is in charge of this island. … Everyone answers to someone, and the leader answers to Jacob.” Ben also reveals that he’s never actually met Jacob.
  • Richard says that he does not age “because of Jacob.”
  • Locke/Jacob’s Enemy says that after he sees Jacob, “We’re going to have to deal with the passengers on that Ajira flight that brought me here.” And yes, Richard, you know what he means. I’m assuming he means kill dead.
  • Bram and Ilana have an interesting exchange about Lapidus, and suggest that Lapidus might be “a candidate.” For what, we won’t know until season 6.
  • Bram, Ilana and the other shadow-of-the-statue people carry the cargo crate around like the Ark of the Covenant. Presumably, this is simply because it makes it easier to carry, but it does add to the mystery.
  • The next flashback we see Young Sawyer at his parents’ funeral. He begins his handwritten note to the Real Sawyer (i.e., Locke’s dad), using a pen that Jacob hands him. Someone (an uncle?) discourages Young Sawyer from a revenge-fueled life, with the wisdom “what’s done is done.” Eventually, Sawyer comes round to this point of view.
  • Juliet’s Other hand-to-hand-combat training comes in handy as she quickly dispatches the sub crew member passing out sedatives.
  • Jack tells Richard in 1977 that he’s knows Locke and “if I were you, I wouldn’t give up on him.” This is strange advice, considering Jack thinks Locke is dead.
  • The Monster seems to be aligned with Locke/Jacob’s Enemy. It convinced Ben, in the form of Alex, that he must do whatever Locke tells him to do. This apparently includes killing Jacob.
  • Jacob intercepts Sayid on LaBrea Ave in Los Angeles, essentially causing Nadia’s death. I had assumed that Ben had arranged Nadia’s death, but apparently, Ben was getting a lot of help motivating the Oceanic Five to return to the island.
  • Richard busts through from the Tunnels to one of the DHARMA houses. Jack offers to go first, but Eloise tells him, “Jack, don’t misunderstand who’s in charge here.” Richard pistol whips Eloise unconscious to keep the Other’s leader safe. I guess Richard has no misunderstanding. (At this point in time, Eloise and Widmore appear to be co-leaders.) Richard also says he’ll take her out “the way we came in,” but wouldn’t it be difficult to drag an unconscious body down an underwater tunnel without killing her or killing himself?
  • The house appears to be Horace’s house. I wonder if this is the same house Ben later moves into post-Purge.
  • Sayid’s plan of “hiding in plain sight” isn’t a terribly great one, as Uncle Rico spots him fairly quickly. Jack is pretty handy with a gun, and Hurley and Jin arrive just in time to provide an escape.
  • Kate, Sawyer and Juliet arrive on a beach, then are greated by Vincent, followed by Rose and Bernard. Rose and Bernard have been living a quiet life in the jungle only five miles from the barracks. Bernard looks ragged and kind of native. They are “retired.” It’s all very sweet, but it was an odd little interlude. Rose has a couple good lines, “It’s always something with you people. … We traveled back 30 years in time and you’re still trying to find ways to shoot each other?”
  • Bram says he plans to show the contents of the cargo box (i.e., Locke’s corpse) to someone, “so they’ll know what they’re up against. … Something a hell of a lot scarier than what’s in this box.”
  • Bram tells Lapidus “we are the good guys,” echoing Ben’s words from season 2. I liked Lapidus’ response, “In my experience, the people who go out of their way to say they are the good guys are the bad guys.”
  • Bram, Ilana and company arrive at the cabin and find the circle of ash has been broken. Was the ash meant as a protection, or a constraint? .
  • We see, in a flashback, Ilana in a pretty nasty looking Russian hospital, convalescing with bandages on her face. She gets a visit from Jacob, whom she recognizes and says she is happy to see. Jacob asks her to do something for her. Presumably, it’s the mission that has just been interrupted by this flashback.
  • The shack is definitely the same shack that we’ve seen previously, with the same junk and bad dog painting. Ilana says, he isn’t there, and hasn’t been for a long time, but “someone else has been using it.” Ilana then orders it burnt. She also hands Bram a woven cloth, something she found inside the cabin pinned to a wall with a knife, with the image of the statue by the shore of the island.
  • If Jacob hasn’t been in the cabin for a long time, who has been? Who was the spirit that was present when Ben first took Locke to the shack? Was it the ghost of Jacob’s Nemesis? Recall that the last time we saw the cabin, it was being used by Undead Christian and (possibly Undead) Claire. Does this mean that the Claire and Christian apparitions are also manifestations of Jacob’s Nemesis, just like Resurrected Locke?
  • Next, we see Jacob sitting on a bench in front of a skyscraper reading Flannery O’Connor’s Everything that Rises Must Converge, a collection of nine of O’Connor’s short stories, published posthumously. (One of her stories in the collection is titled, interestingly, “The Lame Shall Enter First.”) We soon see that this is the scene of Locke’s crippling defenestration.
  • Locke/Jacob’s Nemesis leads the Others to the ruins of the Oceanic 815 survivor’s beach camp. L/JN has a conversation with Ben. It’s clear that L/JN has all the memories of Locke as he remembers the hatch door, “where we first met.”
  • Ben: “So yes, I lied. That’s what I do.” Just to make it perfectly clear for all.
  • Locke/Jacob’s Nemesis taking Ben to kill Jacob parallels Ben taking Locke to kill his father on the brig of the Black Rock.
  • Sun finds, among the ruins, the crib that Locke made for Claire to put Aaron in, and also Charlie’s Drive Shaft ring. Cut to a flashback of Sun and Jin’s wedding. It’s an outdoor Western-style wedding in front of a Korean temple, and Jacob crashes the wedding, saying nice things in supposedly “excellent” Korean.
  • Miles best line: (in response to Jack’s assertion that they’re not going back in time) “Right, because that would be ridiculous.”
  • Jack and Sawyer have a rumble in the jungle that’s as pointless as it is satisfying. Juliet interrupts the fun to let Sawyer know that she’s changed her mind yet again. I know it’s reputed to be a woman’s prerogative and all that, but Juliet seems to be abusing her privileges a bit, and I can’t help but feel sorry for Sawyer.
  • We also get a flashback of Jack as a resident, getting supervision from his father Christian. Christian teaches Jack the trick of counting to control his fear—the same trick that Jack teaches to Kate in the pilot episode after the 815 crash. At the time, however, Jack reacts badly, claiming that his father embarrassed him by putting him in time out in front of his colleagues. To add insult to injury, the vending machine fails to deliver Jack’s Apollo bar. You remember Apollo bars, right? That’s the candy bar that Kate finds in the Swan Hatch at the beginning of season 2. The Apollo bar is next to some other fictional candies, a “Humdinger,” a “Lindo’s” chocolate peanut butter cups, and a “Crisp-It” bar. Luckily, Jacob is there to free Jack’s Apollo bar for him saying, “I guess it just needed a little push.”
  • Sawyer is something like a fatalist or a pragmatic determinist. He explains that he didn’t try to stop his father from committing murder-suicide because “what’s done is done.” Yet later he explains that he “doesn’t speak destiny.” Sawyer probably just likes where he’s at at the moment and doesn’t want to screw it up.
  • We also see a flashback of Juliet and her sister being told by her parents that they were getting a divorce. I’m not exactly sure the point of this flashback, except that maybe it’s to explain Juliet’s commitment issues and her belief that people who love each other aren’t always meant to be together. On the coffee table is a book titled “Mysteries of the Ancient Americas.” This is the only flashback in the episode where Jacob does not make a cameo.
  • Just beyond the perimeter of the Swan site, Jack convinces Kate that it’s okay to send Jughead down the deep hole to the electromagnetic pocket. It’s really amazing how quickly everyone gets onboard the “detonate an H-bomb” bandwagon.
  • We next see Hurley getting discharged from the Los Angeles County jail. Jacob is waiting for Hurley in a cab, and he’s got the guitar case. There’s no chance, however, that we’re going to find out this season what’s in the case. It’s a MacGuffin. Jacob insists that he’s not dead and that Hurley’s not crazy. He soft-sells Hurley on getting on Ajira flight 316 and apparently it works.
  • Before leading Locke/Jacob’s Nemesis to Jacob, Richard says, “There can only be one leader on the island at a time, John.” So maybe I’m wrong about Eloise and Widmore being co-leaders. Maybe Eloise was the leader.
  • Stone walls on Lost aren’t nearly as heavy as they look. You just have to put your shoulder into them and they move.
  • In the entrance to Jacob’s statue dwelling, Locke/Jacob’s Nemesis tells Ben, “I know it won’t be easy, but things will change once he’s gone. I promise.” I imagine that’s true. But he doesn’t say whether things will change for the better, or the worse.
  • Miles makes a very compelling argument, I think. What if Faraday/Jack’s plan isn’t going to prevent the incident, what if it is the incident? What if what happened, happened, and there is not alternate past that doesn’t involve Jack dropping a plutonium warhead down a bore hole? I’m still clinging to the theory that Miles is exactly right. Just like Faraday inevitably scaring Young Charlotte with his crazy man rant, Jack’s actions at the Swan station were simply part of the island’s history.
  • I’m not positive, but I’m pretty sure that the red toolbox that whacks Jack upside the head ends up being in the Hatch years later.
  • We see how Pierre Change (Marvin Candle) injured his arm.
  • Phil gets rebar through the heart.
  • I found Juliet’s death scene to be heartbreaking. Really sad.
  • When Ilana and her crew arrive at the statue, she asks, “Which one of you is Richardus?” Perhaps the shadow-of-the-statue people are from an ancient order of Others whose knowledge of the island is more theoretical than practical. Sort of a Templar Knights of the island.
  • When Ilana asks Richard “What lies in the shadow of the statue,” he responds in Latin, “Ille qui nos omnes servabit.” Recall that Juliet said all Others learn Latin. The phrase translates, “He who will protect us all.” Presumably, this means Jacob.
  • Ilana then shows Richard Locke’s corpse. Sun asks the obvious question, “If this is Locke, who’s in there?”
  • Inside Jacob’s statue dwelling, Ben looks at the tapestry woven by Jacob. It looks Egyptian, but with Greek writing on it as well. UPDATE: In the comments, Kevin Barney points out that the Greek is most likely a quote from Homer’s Odyssey, 6.180: “may the gods give you everything that your heart longs for.” The longer quotation, reads as follows:

    may the gods give you everything that your heart longs for;/
    may they grant you a husband and a house and sweet agreement/
    in all things, for nothing is better than this, more steadfast/
    than when two people, a man and his wife, keep a harmonious/
    household; a thing that brings much distress to the people who hate them/
    and pleasure to their well-wishers, and for them the best reputation.

    These are Odysseus’ words to Nausikaa after Odysseus washes up on her island during his journey home to his wife Penelope following the Trojan War.

  • Jacob recognizes Locke/Jacob’s Nemesis immediately and says “You found your loop hole,” referring back to the conversation that took place at the beginning of the season finale on the beach. Jacob knows he may be killed, but he’s calm. He doesn’t even really resist it.
  • Ben, monologing before killing Jacob, explains how he led the Others: Richard would get pieces of paper and “lists” from Jacob, and relay them to Ben. Remember the lists that Ethan and Goodwin made after Oceanic 815 crashed? Those really were Jacob’s lists.
  • Jacob’s final words to Locke are ominous, “They’re coming.” Who? And what will they do when they get here? If Jacob was protecting the island, will the people who come do it harm?
  • Juliet’s final act seems heroic, even if I’m not convinced that it changed anything. We’re going to have to wait about nine months to find out. For the first time in Lost history, we have a quick fade to white, rather than the usual Lost logo with the black background. Nice effect.
  • During the credits, we were treated to this teaser for season 6, the final season of Lost:
  • The question for me, then is: whose eye is this?

    Is it Juliet’s? I hope so, but I’m not sure.

Wow. That was a lot to digest, and I’m pretty exhausted. Let’s discuss it all in the comments below.

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143 thoughts on “LOST: “The Incident” (Season 5 Finale)

  1. I am soooo confused right now. The episode should have been called:

    Two Dudes, an Island, and a Loophole.

    What the frak just happened?

    Were the Oceanic Six just pawns?
    Was Guy #2 just playing them all along?
    And, I guess not just the Six, but ALL of the 815ers…
    Why does he hate Jacob so much?
    Why does he need a loophole?
    Are their rules that we don’t know about (clearly)?
    Was Guy #2 the apparition Christian Shepherd? Is he the apparition for all of the ghosties (Ecko, Walt, etc…)?

    Are these two guys like Romulus and Remus?
    Are they the founders of the island?
    The cabin? Who had taken it over? We know that Christian Shepherd appeared there, but was he just Guy #2 in Christian’s form?

    Who are these “shadow of the statue” guys working for? Why were they hell bent on bringing Sayid back to the island?

    If Guy #2 can take the form of other guys, did HE take the form of Jacob off the island to lead people to go where they needed to? Or, was that Jacob? Was Jacob pointing all of the 815ers to finally get onto 815?

    What happened at the hatch? I had said before what Miles echoed: Jack struggling to stop the incident probably caused it, and Faraday probably KNEW that all along, he was just trying to get people to do what they were always supposed to do (he even said that in the “Variable”). He knew that Jack wouldn’t go batshit crazy for the bomb if “whatever happened happened” was still his philosophy (see how he treated lil Ben when he was shot in 1977).

    Is John Locke dead?

    Blew my frakking mind.

  2. That eye sure looks like Jack’s. I’m sure someone has done a comparison with Jack’s eyes when he first woke up in the jungle in the pilot in Season One.

    John K., have I changed my stance on Ben? Not at all. Did Jacob tell Ben that he was to kill off all Dharma folks? I don’t think so. Ben wasn’t in charge of The Others at the time. How about sending off Goodwin so that Goodwin and Juliet would not be together. And of course, Ben killed Locke (which apparently was actually fatal now). Ben has been working, not for Jacob (who is being written as the good guy right now), but for the Mysterious Loophole Dude, who is apparently The Monster/The Dead. For me, Ben is still a bad guy. He got tamed by Mysterious Loophole Dude with the whole “you really didn’t kill Locke” stuff. But at his heart, he is a liar, and a murderer.

    I like the way the episode ended. The writers now can do what they want next season. Blowing up a nuclear weapon where the Swan station was to be built tells me the Swan station was destroyed. I believe Faraday, and I think the pocket of magnetic energy has been mollified, thus altering history, thus not the original reason for the plane to crash. That’s not to say the plane won’t be brought down anyways.

  3. One other thing I want to add about “The Incident.” If we are referring to the one Dr. Chang talks about in the training video, remember, the pocket of magnetic energy had to be “released” evey 108 minutes (that’s the number, right?). If the Swan Station is destroyed, as a nuclear explosion would certainly destroy it, how can the Dharma folks have a method in which to release the magnetic energy to make sure it doesn’t blow up on them? I think the Incident was originally the first part of what we saw, before Juliet finally gave the nuclear bomb the last umph it needed. A nuclear explosion partially underground would create a big hole where there was previously rock. I think that spot is now a big hole.

  4. When we met Jacob and his nemesis, I decided to call him Esau until his actual name is reveiled. Two mythological gods playing games with Human lives? Any guesses as who they might be? Odin and Loki?

  5. The Korean was very good. The accent was rough, but the grammar, etc. was “excellent” (tent hands and speak in a Mr. Burns inflection). He used the more formal Korean forms rather than the more intimate forms used by Sun and Jin, but then again the more intimate speach is expected for spouses. Whoever does the translation does an excellent job. I thought it was so cute to hear Sun talking to her baby in an earlier episode.

    Did someone recognize the Russian? What language did Ilana speak and what did she say when she replied about what was at the foot of the statue?

  6. As usual, great recap Greg. For once, I might add something…

    Did anyone else notice that whenever Jacob met Losties in the real world, he always touched them casually? He taps young Kate on the nose, with Sawyer and Jack he has his fingers brush theirs during the exchange of the pen and the candy bar. Similar contact was made with Sayid and Hurley…

    Think it means anything? I do, it was a very consistent pattern.

  7. So much to think about … two initial comments, well three:

    Awesome job on the recaps, always with the info I want to know (Latin translation!), very very much appreciated. First site I came to this morning.

    Do you really think Jacob arranged the death of Nadia? I thought he was just there at a pivotal moment, as with everyone else, and possibly even prevented the death of Sayid along with Nadia. Why would Jacob kill Nadia?

    I also wondered if Christian was another form of JN – perhaps his habit being to take the form of corpses that land on the island. But then I remembered that Christian and JN met in the hut by the dock, when Christian showed the picture to Locke and Sun.

    So could Christian be another entity who has taken the body of a corpse so as to appear to humans? Did I just type that???

    Trying to understand the whole Jacob/JN thing, I have to wonder if Jacob wanted to die. Who walks straight up to a person with a dagger and an intent to kill? He knew, and perhaps welcomed it. He’s been stuck in this loop for centuries or more, and finally he’s out.

    I also wonder if it’s possible Jacob wasn’t there the first time all these Lostie moments happened – he didn’t change any lives other than maybe Kate’s. Is it possible he traveled through time to meet each one of them at a later date? He sure waited to til the last minute to meet Hurley.

  8. Looks like Ben’s eye to me.

    My big question is what did the Greek writing say?

  9. Dan, they are all liars and murderers. Ben became an Other after killing Dad and the Dharma folk. My guess is that he was told if you do this then you can be one of us. Like Ben giving Locke the order to kill his Dad. It was crushing to see Nemesis and Jacob using Ben as a pawn and to see Ben realize that all he did for Jacob still didn’t win him his favor. His replacement father didn’t love him anymore then his real dad had. Last thing for now, I think the “they” that’s returning are the Losties circa 1977, hopefully that means Juliette too. Sawyer and Jules are a compelling couple just like Des and Penny. So sick of Jack and Kate though.

  10. Fantastic point about Jacob touching people as he interacts with them. Notice that at the defenestration of Locke, it even appeared that he brought Locke back to life with a touch…. Locke sure looked dead as a doornail before that.

  11. @Jenny:

    DID Resurrected Locke and Christian actually meet at the Barracks? I thought Christian appeared to Sun and Lapidus, told them to **wait for Locke so that he could help them reunite their people**, and then left. Later that night, Ben and Resurrected Locke show up at the Barracks and find Sun and Lapidus alone.

    So Christian was either in league with Resurrected Locke/Esau in deceiving Sun about reuniting with Jin, or he was just somehow COMPLETELY out of the loop (seems less likely).

  12. You’re right! Frank and Sun arrive first and meet Christian at the dock, and Ben and Locke arrive later and meet them at the barracks.

    So indeed, looks like Jacob’s nemesis inhabits corpses toward his own ends.

    But I still think that when Jack sees his father, it’s a different kind of apparition – suited Christian is in Jack’s head, and casual Christian is – has he been the whole time? – Jacob’s nemesis.

  13. This series presents such a detailed story – I wonder if after watching it all the first time it will be somehow necessary to watch the whole thing again? I feel tired just thinking about trying to do that – but am enjoying the show.

  14. DID Resurrected Locke and Christian actually meet at the Barracks? I thought Christian appeared to Sun and Lapidus, told them to **wait for Locke so that he could help them reunite their people**, and then left. Later that night, Ben and Resurrected Locke show up at the Barracks and find Sun and Lapidus alone.

    I think this is right. Thanks for clearing this up.

  15. That’s about the briefest teaser I’ve ever seen. What do they want us to take away from it?

    I am wondering if anything discernible is reflected in the eye? I can’t really tell but no doubt there are some tech gurus out there who could somehow blow up that pic and see if there’s anything more to the image.

  16. Greg,

    Something you could add to your episode rundown (and I’m a little surprised you missed!–only because you are usually so good at catching these things): in the opening scene, Jacob and Esau are conspicuously wearing white and dark clothing, respectively. This made me think alllllll the way back to Season 1, when Locke was teaching Walt how to play backgammon and gave that speech about “a light side and a dark side”, holding up the light and dark playing pieces (to which my brain responded “thematic alert! thematic alert!”).

  17. It’s also worth noting that the Smoke Monster didn’t come when Ben summonsed it, but Locke/Jacob’s Nemesis did. The Smoke Monster and L/JN almost seem to be allies, or at least have interests that are aligned.

  18. Squals – another good point about the light/dark imagery. The white/black motif was used pretty heavily in the first season, but we haven’t seen it as much recently.

  19. The line: Sawyer’s plan of “hiding in plain sight”
    should read: Sayid’s plan etc..

  20. That’s about the briefest teaser I’ve ever seen. What do they want us to take away from it?

    I am wondering if anything discernible is reflected in the eye? I can’t really tell but no doubt there are some tech gurus out there who could somehow blow up that pic and see if there’s anything more to the image.

    Well, what I took from it is that some character is going to awaken at the beginning of season 6 in changed circumstances. I’m not 100% sure, but I think you can see jungle foliage reflected in the eye, so it could very well be someone who wakes up on their back in the jungle, post-Jughead blast, but in a different time. My guess would be forward to 2007. If it’s Juliet, it means she (along with the other survivors) survived the blast. I’m not sure it makes any sense for the eye to be Ben, as we know Ben’s location and situation at the end of the season.

    Granted, that’s a lot of speculation based on a one-second clip, but that’s where my mind went immediately when I saw it.

  21. The interaction between Jacob and Ben is worth noting: Jacob tells Ben he has a choice. Ben monologues and ends up sounding like a selfish, neglected child.

    Ben: “what about me?”
    Jacob: “what about you?”

    Do you think that was dismissing Ben’s importance or was it a teaching moment of some kind? Had Ben’s selfishness made him lose sight of something? Then there was a dramatic pause followed by stab, stab.

  22. So Christian was either in league with Resurrected Locke/Esau in deceiving Sun about reuniting with Jin, or he was just somehow COMPLETELY out of the loop…

    Or Christian meant “wait for the REAL Locke,” and not Loophole Locke. Perhaps we’ll see the real Locke resurrected after all in Season 6. (It certainly appeared that Jacob resurrected him once before, after Locke’s dad threw him out the window.)

    Along those same lines, I don’t think Jacob is dead, either. If he really did bring Locke back from the dead after his fall, my guess is that he can defy death himself.

    So I think Christian and the other Undeads are probably aligned with Jacob, not Loophole Locke. My question is this: with whom are Eloise Hawking and Charles Widmore aligned?

  23. ANy guesses as to who Jacob was referring to in his last breath when he said, “They’re coming.” Something tells me it’s not anybody out that’s currently outside the statue.

  24. with whom are Eloise Hawking and Charles Widmore aligned?

    I think this is a key question. Remember Eloise sending Daniel back to set these events in motion (killing her son, detonating the bomb, etc.) Does this mean anything?

  25. An episode towards the end of last season reminded me of the novel “Homeward Bounders,” which I quoted here. And I commented “I don’t think we’re dealing with overlapping worlds, but based on last night’s conversation Ben and Charles do seem to be playing by a set of rules that requires them to use others as pawns or proxies.”

    Replace Ben & Charles with Jacob & notJacob and it could still be a similar situation.

  26. The fact that Widmore wasn’t even *mentioned* in this episode, and the way that Eloise was eliminated from the action by Richard at the beginning, says a lot to me.

    I had thought for some time (and kinda hoped, because I like history), that there would be some whole dynastic story of them and the Black Rock and Christian etc etc.

    In fact it keeps coming back to the same themes that we saw in the very first episode: what happens to a bunch of people who are emotionally lost and somewhat traumatized when the experience a real physical trauma and find themselves lost for real?

    Everything else – Dharma, Widmore, Ben, time travel, etc etc – is just a backdrop to that story.

    Now, they’ve taken to a new level – a symbolic struggle between free will and destiny, more so than good and evil (were they actually belittling that theme with the too-obvious black and white shirts?).

    Jacob and Nemesis are the macro, while the personal struggles of the Losties are the micro. Look at the Jacob-Nemesis conversations vs the Jack-Sawyer conversation – in some ways, it was the same conversation.

  27. The Greek is apparently a quotation from Homer, Odyssey, 6.180: “May the gods give you everything your heart longs for.”

    These are the words Odysseus says to the princess Nausikaa when he washes up on her island. He of course is trying to return home to Penelope, who is weaving and unweaving a tapestry.

  28. Here’s the Greek passage from the Odyssey with a little more context:

    may the gods give you everything that your heart longs for;/
    may they grant you a husband and a house and sweet agreement/
    in all things, for nothing is better than this, more steadfast/
    than when two people, a man and his wife, keep a harmonious/
    household; a thing that brings much distress to the people who hate them/
    and pleasure to their well-wishers, and for them the best reputation

  29. The actual Greek text (in English transliteration) is:

    soi de theoi tosa doien hosa phresi sEsi menoinas

  30. Kevin, thanks for the Greek translation and the citation to Homer.

    Homer has shown up a few times in Lost. Remember that Ben was reading Joyce’s Ulysses (a book based on the Odyssey) on the Ajira 316 flight. The Desmond/Penny and Odysseus/Penelope connection is obvious. I think there may have been a couple of others.

  31. Did anyone catch the religious/atheist undertone of the conversation between Ben and Nemesis Locke? Locke has questioned the existence of Jacob before (“you haven’t seen him? How convenient.”) and then he questions why Ben would be faithful to him if he took away his daughter (and something else, I can’t remember now), then Locke says, “Why wouldn’t you want to kill him?” (or something like that). I thought it was pretty blatant, it was almost like the show was opening up the theme to the Question of Evil.

  32. Thoughts on the great writeup.

    1. Did Damon’s answer about writing Star Trek not end up in the WaPo’s story? They put the question in and then no answer.

    2. Carlton’s point about Lost being a dinasaur is sad. I wish there were more shows like Lost. But I think it was a product of a short era in television history – probably not to be repeated again. Even mini-series are in the dustheap. That said Fringe is trying to do what Lost is, albeit far less successfully. I don’t know if they have an overarching scope though. But then I’m not convinced Lost had an overarching scope during the first season. I think a lot of the story was made up once it became clear how successful the show was.

    3. John, why do you hate Juliette. I’ve always liked her character. I completely understood where she was coming from. Much more so than say Kate. But I did like how all the emotions and fears got wrapped up in agreement by everyone. Plus Miles’ statement about the bomb was not only wise but correct. (I’m really starting to dig Miles whereas I really didn’t care for him before)

    4. The “two guys” seem to parallel many literary types. The biggest one I noted in the other thread. Satan and Yahweh from the story in Job. The opening was very Jobish. Then there is the obvious Esau and Jacob parallel. Perhaps a little Cain and Abel? I like the Romulus and Remus paralell as well. The idea being that this is a classic type. I still think Jacob is Prospero from Shakespeare’s Tempest as well as being the wizard from The Wizard of Oz. If the Tempest is a big parallel then perhaps Jacob isn’t Prospero at all but Ariel or Caliban? Or is Ariel actually Richard (which would make sense since in the play Ariel is Prospero’s somewhat reluctant servant) Caliban, the other foil for Prospero is also a monster. (And in the Forbidden Planet take is very much like the smoke monster)

    5. While clearly the writers want you to believe that resurrected-Locke isn’t really Locke at all but the guy from the beginning of the finale, I’m still holding out hope for it being a resurrected Locke of some sort ala Jack Shepherd. One big problem is the relationship of Locke to Shepherd and Jacob. Both seem to be manipulating him. I think Shepherd is tied to Jacob which makes Locke’s death more due to Jacob than his protagonist.

    6. The “shadow of the statue” guys probably are working for Jacob. Does that mean it was Jacob who brought Sayid back to the island? (Remember the kidnapping) I’m still not convinced Jacob is actually good.

    7. I think Faraday knew he was going to die – he just didn’t know his mom would be the one to do it.

    8. The big argument against my “Locke is alive” theory is that chilling moment when Locke tells Richard to take care of the other plane survivors.

    9. Did Jacob kill Nadia? Or was it Ben or Widmore? That’s a big question. Is Widmore working for Jacob? And I don’t think we’re done with Dharma.

    10. The big question is who said “help me” in the cabin. And was the cabin Rose and Bernard’s? (It appears so — I guess no one else survived) Actually there are about a dozen big questions.

    11. I agree Jacob brought Locke back to life. And whatever is going on with the Locke-Nemisis bit, clearly Jacob is manipulating things. I’m not at all convinced that Christian is the Nemesis though. I guess we’ll find out next year.

    12. I like the idea that “they are coming” refers to Locke and not just the 77 Losties. I don’t think it does, but I like the idea. But what can I say? I just like Locke and hope he isn’t dead.

  33. 8. The big argument against my “Locke is alive” theory is that chilling moment when Locke tells Richard to take care of the other plane survivors.

    We’ve been told many times that “dead is dead,” so I do think that RealLocke is dead. Seems an odd exit for one of the show’s central characters though, so one does wonder if some sort of reversal will not so much bring him back to life, but make it so that he never died.

    Richard has been telling us this was going to happen – remember when he sees Locke on the beach and says he seems different? I also found Richard’s comments to Jack this ep significant: “I went to see Locke three times and he never seemed special to me.”

  34. I’m sure no one here will admit to watching Desperate Housewives ;) , but all of these flashback Jacob interactions remind me strongly of the Beau Bridges – handyman episode of DH this season.

  35. As always, a great recap from BTD Greg and some very thought provoking ideas from others.

    It seems interesting to me that the Others were taking persons into their camp that were not personally touched by Jacob, but they supposedly followed him. For example, Juliet was an Other and her flashback showed that he was not present at one of the important events that shaped her life. Is Jacob a support person or a manifestation of chaos and strife? Did Juliet end up a successful doctor, rather than something like a prostitute, because Jacob wasn’t there? Or did she not need his help?

    It is also interesting to me that the smoke monster, who deals out judgement, resides in the same temple where it would seem Richard took young Ben to be saved. If anti-Jacob is aligned with smokey, does that mean that anti-Jacob was the one who saved him? Maybe that’s why Jacob never protected him. Or do both Jacob and anti-Jacob share the temple? Did Jacob save him and that is why Ben suffered so much?

    So much to ponder! I wish I knew more Greek mythology. I guess I have about 9 months to work on it.

  36. Jenny,

    Your point seems a good one. It may end up being that there really is not anything special about any of the Losties, that they were simply used by Loophole Dude/Smoke Monster to finally kill Jacob. I’m still curious what Loophole Dude meant in that beginning conversation:

    [Referring to the ship] Jacob’s Nemesis: How did they find the island?
    Jacob: You’ll have to ask them when they get here.
    JN: I don’t have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong.
    J: You are wrong.
    JN: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
    J: If it only ends once, anything that happens before that is just progress.
    JN: Do you have any idea how badly I wanna kill you?
    J: Yes.
    JN: One of these days, sooner or later, I’m going to find a loophole, my friend.

  37. Great post as always, Greg.

    Something I don’t think anyone has mentioned:

    Next season obviously hinges on the question: Did the 1977 Losties “reset” things or not? ie, Did Jack’s plan work?

    If the answer is “no,” I’m not sure where things stand with Jacob being dead.

    If the answer is “yes,” though, Jacob isn’t dead. If Jack’s plan works, Locke never comes to the island, the whole chain of events never happens and Locke’s dead body never comes back to the island to be used by Jacob’s nemesis.

    I’m inclined to think that Jack’s plan DID work (I keep hearing Jacob’s “you have a choice” speech in my head).

    In essence, Jacob wanted and needed Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, et al to come BACK to the island…that’s why we saw the visit with Hurley and the incident with Sayid and Nadia. He knew he would need to bring them back to the island because he knew his nemesis was planning something and he would need to “reset” things.

    Either way, it’s pretty obvious that our beloved Losties and their plotlines are merely pawns in this longstanding battle between Jacob and his nemesis that goes back hundreds, maybe even thousands, of years. That’s what I found so cool about this finale.

    In spite of everything we know, it’s obvious we really don’t know anything.

    Season 6 is going to be jam-packed.

    Let me also comment on how I went through my own personal period of LOST….how would you say…a trial of my LOST faith, perhaps?

    There was a significant period of time, most of Season 4 and the beginning of Season 5, where I had come to the conclusion that the writers were pretty much making it up as they went and had no clear vision for the series and it really was going to turn out to be all of our worst fear and be an X-Files type of ending.

    It’s pretty clear, to me, at least, that the “big picture” has been pretty laid out from the beginning (ie, four-toed statue in Season 1, etc) and it’s all coming to a very very VERY dramatic conclusion in Season 6. I sometimes worried that we would never really feel satisfied as to the origins of the island, the persona of Jacob, etc etc, but I’ve never been more confident since last night that all that satisfaction is starting to come and is going to be poured down on us with a fury next season.

    I can’t wait.

  38. The opening conversation between Jacob and his nemesis reminds me of the beginning of the book of Job. Satan and God argue about the goodness of man, and they basically make a bet to see what Job is really like.

    In particular, the phrase from JN, “still trying to prove me wrong” seems important. What is Jacob trying to prove JN wrong about?

  39. Yeah, the producers did say “dead is dead.” But then there are a lot of dead folk walking around… And Jacob didn’t seem to deny it was real dead folk that Hurley was seeing.

  40. Hmmm … I do think that the people Hurley talks to are really dead, and merely in his head. His way of dealing with his demons. Was the precedent not set with his imaginary friend Dave?

    Christian as we’ve been discussing here might very well be Nemesis in disguise, so less a dead person walking around than someone using his image/memories for themselves. Jury’s still out on Claire.

    Miles also did make the point with some authority that you can’t converse with dead people – you can only hear their final thoughts if you have the ability to listen to them.

    Ilana’s van boys – who now clearly have a greater knowledge of the island than many – specifically sought out Miles for this skill.

  41. Richard says, “There can only be one leader on the island at a time, John.” So maybe I’m wrong about Eloise and Widmore being co-leaders. Maybe Eloise was the leader…

    I wonder if the One Leader at a Time rule was created after Ellie and Widmore attempted to share leadership because it didn’t go well. Richard did say that Ellie and Widmore’s relationship was “complicated”

  42. The idea of Loki being involved in this somehow is appealing, just because he is such a trickster and would be willing to manipulate the minds/lives of others in whatever way amused him.

    But mixing up the Norse and the Egyptian – that seems like it would be too much.

  43. Nicely said, everyone.

    Something I haven’t heard mentioned is that Jacob’s actions with those Losties he touched seem to have led to them coming to the island.

    It was most obvious with Hurley.

    Nadia’s death motivated Sayid to work for Ben, killing that fellow on the golf course, and being tracked and found by Ilana.

    It seemed clear that Jacob’s actions led to both Kate and Sawyer continuing their lives of crime and revenge, respectively. Without Jacob’s intervention Kate would have had much more severe consequences and young James would have been unable to finish his revenge note.

    Etc.

    Also, I’m pretty convinced that the “Adam & Eve” skeletons are Bernard and Rose. A white stone for him and a black tone for her.

    FWIW I’m with James (#43). I think Season 6 will be the Mulligan season, and I’m curious to see if some events from the first 5 seasons didn’t happen in this reboot and if others still did occur, as if reality can be divided into deterministic and free-will partitions. For example, someone (Jack?) still wakes up on their back in the jungle, but how does that person get there in this version?

    On the other hand, I suspect the chain of events leading up to Jacob’s death has been broken.

  44. If Juliet is actually dead – if the detonation didn’t somehow reboot them into some alternate timeline – I will be terribly disappointed. Elizabeth Mitchell is smoking hot. My wife did make the comment – “how did she manage to locate a push-up bra on the island in 1977??”

  45. Clark,

    I don’t want to rehash my issues with the Juliet character and the actress who plays her. I’ve commented on those things over the last couple seasons.

    But in this one particular episode I thought her fighting and gun skills were over the top and her deciding to blow up an h-bomb because Sawyer happened to look at Kate were ridiculous. That is a pretty violent swing considering they got off the sub to save everyone on the island, and now she wants to blow up the island (and everyone on it) based on a stray look?

    I do agree with you about Miles. He is a great character and delivers some really good lines.

  46. I like the idea that Richard is from the Black Rock.

    Why do most people on the island seem to speak American? (With notable exceptions like Widmore, Eloise, Sayid and Desmond.)

    I suspect the answer is similar to the one about the push-up bra: because it’s kind to the audience’s ears (and eyes).

  47. I’m not at all troubled by Juliet’s motivations.

    She got on the sub largely to get her (and Sawyer) away from Kate. Then Kate shows up on the sub. Oh great. She can’t fathom a life on the mainland knowing that Kate is always going to be there, always in the back of Sawyer’s mind, so she makes the decision to go back and do something rather than resign herself to a miserable love life off-island.

    Then, during the course of the episode, she finally comes to the realization (enhanced for the viewer via flashback) that she was never fully going to have Sawyer’s love because part of his heart will always be with Kate.

    Once she finally admitted this to herself, of course she would want to “reset” everything. She said it out loud herself. Changing the past meant never having to lose Sawyer.

  48. @ Jenny #46

    Christian as we’ve been discussing here might very well be Nemesis in disguise, so less a dead person walking around than someone using his image/memories for themselves. Jury’s still out on Claire.

    Not sure if anyone else said this, but my theory is that JN can assume the form and anyone whose dead body is on the island. Remember that Jack was bringing Christian back from Australia on the original Oceanic flight and his body likely ended up on the island. Then w/ Locke being on the plane he was able to assume his form. Same w/ the appearances of Horace and Roger Linus and Claire (after dying in the Dharma compound) to the Losties. So that’s why he told Locke (in the form of Christian) that he would have to die in order to bring his friends back, right before Locke turned the donkey wheel.

  49. She got on the sub largely to get her (and Sawyer) away from Kate. Then Kate shows up on the sub. Oh great. She can’t fathom a life on the mainland knowing that Kate is always going to be there, always in the back of Sawyer’s mind, so she makes the decision to go back and do something rather than resign herself to a miserable love life off-island.

    It’s probably worth noting that Juliet was on Zodiac island when Sawyer and Kate made mad bear-cage love, and it probably scarred her. I know it scarred me.

  50. Ditto to James. Although I also think that she realized she was fleeing her own fears. It was a bit of self-realization.

    I like the Loki parallels and thought of those myself – although I still think The Tempest is the biggest parallel.

  51. For the shape shifter theory – how do you explain the scene from last season where both Claire and Christian were in the cabin?

  52. Mike D.,

    Not sure if anyone else said this, but my theory is that JN can assume the form and anyone whose dead body is on the island. Remember that Jack was bringing Christian back from Australia on the original Oceanic flight and his body likely ended up on the island. Then w/ Locke being on the plane he was able to assume his form.

    This is an excellent point. Couple this with the “Shadow” woman saying that Jacob’s cabin was not inhabited by Jacob but by someone else, and we might get to a conclusion that the Jacob that Richard, Ben, and everyone else on the island thinks is Jacob is none other than Jacob’s Nemesis!

    To counter JN’s loophole, the real Jacob used the Losties to break the loophole and Jacob’s death.

  53. I’m with whoever said that they aren’t so sure Jacob is the good guy. There is something about him I just don’t trust. I’m not sure about Nemesis inhabiting Christian and Claire. It’s very possible but I do think that he’s Smokey. Could be when there isn’t a body around to use then he’s smokey.

  54. Rose,

    Smokey is in cahoots with JN. Smokey (as Alex) told Ben to listen to what JN asked him to do or Smokey would kill Ben.

  55. thing is…if Jack blowing up the Swan site DOES work, then they never land on the island and they land in Los Angeles as planned and none of this happened and THUS Jack NEVER blows up the Swan site. If Jack then never blows up the Swan site, they crash on the island and all these things happen and Jack then blows up the SWAN site. But if Jack blows up the Swan site, then…It is a paradox.

  56. Personally, I think Juliet’s motivations in this episode were nonsensical. I am a huge fan of the LOST writers, but this was the least satisfying of their season finales.

    We got plenty of new information, but the character motivations were weak, and in a lot of instances were mere contrivances to get the story from point A to point B.

    Juliet’s flashback doesn’t contain Jacob because it’s main point was not to advance the plot, but to justify her erractic decision-making. It’s as if the writers wanted Juliet to do X, and then had to reverse engineer a reason why.

    Even so, I can’t imagine that a child of divorce who has had three wonderful years with the man of her dreams, a man who has given her absolutely no indication that he desires to leave her, and that has instead done everything possible to stay with her, will throw all that away over a look. I believe Juliet would cling to the stability and security in her life, namely Sawyer.

    Similarly, the Rose/Bernard scene, which was weird and totally out of place tonally with the rest of the episode, existed primarily to motivate Juliet’s erratic choices.

    I’m of the opinion the writers of LOST fall short when it comes to writing women characters. This is why so many people are ambivalent when it comes to Kate and Juliet.

    On a bigger level, I completely don’t buy everyone jumping on the hydrogen bomb bandwagon. It flies in the face of the most primal human motivation of self-preservation. A life on the island in 1977 is a way better alternative than the H-bomb. Why choose your own death and the death of many others, just for a slim chance of an unaltered life back in 2004? And on the basis of the word of a neurotic physicist and a doctor with a Messiah complex??? C’mon, that’s not much of a choice, but everyone just grabbed their rifles and started shooting. Even Miles, who seems to be the only rational person left.

    If the hydrogen bomb plan had been given more time and been properly debated, it could have worked more and better as the ultimate leap of faith.

  57. I don’t think what Jack did with Jughead will reboot history because I think Miles is right. They were playing right into the Island’s history. The Incident was their plan. I also feel pretty certain that the “they” Jacob was referring to was indeed the castaways though perhaps minus Juliette and Miles.

  58. James,

    I’m sorry, I just can’t buy that. I know we’re watching Lost, and there are smoke monsters and polar bears and all sorts of odd stuff – but one thing that I can’t suspend my disbelief on (regardless of genre) is bad motivation for characters.

    People here were annoyed with Jack and others for their jumping on the bandwagon…at least they had the concept explained to them!

    Brian G,

    You summed it up quite nicely. Though I would argue that nearly all of Rose and Bernard’s scenes have been out of place, in this episode it was particularly egregious.

    The writers absolutely tried to reverse engineer Juliet’s motivations, and to make it worse they did it at the last possible second. They’ve had multiple seasons to plant this seed, but they do it right before she acts. Kind of a cheat. Not that I think it justified her mood swing anyway.

    I think your thought about writing women characters is totally correct.

    I think it applies to Shannon being basically a screaming banshee. I’ve had problems with Claire’s motivations with Charlie. And I think Sun, Kate and Juliet are always reverted back into clichéd baby drama or love triangle/jealousy stuff.

    Their most effective female characters (with motivation) are ones that either written like men (Anna Lucia) or ones we hardly get to see (Penny)

  59. Why do most people on the island seem to speak American

    Because most are American. The only oddities you might pick out are Richardo the pirate and Jacob the Egyptian. But Jacob appears able to speak Korean very well along with apparently quite a few other languages so we shouldn’t be surprised about English. And Richardo was living with Americans for at least 60 years and still has a bit of a latin flair to him.

    Similarly, the Rose/Bernard scene, which was weird and totally out of place tonally with the rest of the episode, existed primarily to motivate Juliet’s erratic choices.

    There were a few of us demanding some news about Rose and Bernard. I didn’t see the connection with Juliet, truth be told. I believe their cabin becomes Jacob’s cabin. (Or The Nemisis for those who think it went that way)

    As I said I found Juliet’s behavior entirely believable and quite well written. The flashback of Juliet may have two factors. One to distinguish her from the main Losties but also to help explain her actions. I don’t have trouble with that.

    As for everyone buying into the H-Bomb I think there’s a bit of Jacob going on. But you have to also consider that they trust Faraday and that it’s not like they haven’t seen a bunch of weird stuff already…

  60. John K.,

    I think you’re right, and not just because you agree with me. Kate seemed more real to me when she was more “manly,” i.e., a dangerous fugitive from the law.

    Clark,

    When they spoke to Rose and Bernard, Juliet was supposed to be all pained. Bernard even asked her if she was okay and offered her tea, if I remember correctly.

    The suggestion seemed to be she realizes what R&B have is something she’ll never have, or something she lost forever when she got off the sub.

    It was confusing, if you ask me, and the end of the Sawyer/Juliet relationship is a sadly blown opportunity. I was totally buying the Sawyer/Juliet love story. It was ten times more convincing than Jack/Kate ever was, and Sawyer/Kate for that matter.

    In the space of an episode Juliet goes from wanting Sawyer to wanting her life with Sawyer eradicated, all because she’s insecure about Kate. Juliet has always been portrayed as a strong-willed, smart woman, and now she’s crippled by the presence of another woman, it just strikes me as false. She seems like the type that would fight and defend the relationship, especially when Sawyer has always done right by her.

    As far as a bit of Jacob going on to explain the dramatic H-bomb conversion, that’s a shabby deus ex machina explanation in my book. And do they trust Faraday? Miles and Sawyer don’t seem to. They constantly refer to him as crazy.

  61. What do you guys think? Is the Incident Dr. Chang talks about in the training video the bursting of the magnetic pocket, or the nuclear explosion (at which he was present, mind you)?

  62. Brian G,

    You’re right about Kate. I actually meant to include that example. Her character was at her best in the first couple of seasons.

  63. I think it’s Kate’s eye. Ben’s eyes are rounder. Kate’s are that green color. NO idea what it means though.
    It seemed to me that when Juliet woke up at the bottom of the pit she was thinking, “C’mon! I’m supposed to be dead!”

  64. Brian, I think Juliet is alive.

    I think she was pained. But that doesn’t mean what I think you are taking it to mean.

    Miles and Sawyer think Faraday is crazy but think all the things he’s claimed are true. (Milo explicitly said this to Chang)

  65. Doc Jensen is sure that is Jack’s eye. He thinks season 6 will start like season 1.

  66. I’m not a big fan of Kate or Juliet, but I think the writing is effective in portraying them as women. The Losties are not always likable characters. I think a lot of the ambivialence about them is intentional. They are all trying to sort out their demons. Every once in a while I’ll say “now this is a (Jack/Sawyer/Locke/Sun) that I can get on board with” and then something else changes and my liking of the character changes.

    Juliet was totally irrational this episode, which is opposed to her normal demeanor. Though annoying, it definitely shows how love often makes women very irrational. Sometimes crazy stupid. The flashback was information that Juliet has verbally shared before. I think it was not so important to show the source of her insecurities as it showed that her disfunction was not impacted by Jacob. But that’s just me.

  67. Everyone keeps saying Juliet freaked out over “one look.”

    It wasn’t just one look. Juliet knows that Kate and Sawyer have a history, and a history that dates to before she and Sawyer even knew each other. She knows Kate and Sawyer have much more similar backgrounds than she and Sawyer. They have similar personalities, even. She knows that Kate is perfect for Sawyer.

    For the last three years, she hasn’t been threatened by Kate. Now all of a sudden she shows up and she’s all over the place, threatening her once-solid relationship with Sawyer.

    Piled on top of all that, Sawyer is now ogling Kate on multiple occasions, making dreamy eyes at her one second, and the next telling Juliet that she’s the only one for him.

    Juliet’s not stupid. She put 2 and 2 and 2 and 2 together and realized that, in her current environment, things would never be the same between her and Sawyer.

    So, what does she do? Find a way to change that environment.

    I not only found her storyline last night completely believable, but heartbreaking as well.

  68. I think the eye was Juliet’s. It just looks more consistent with the shape of her eye and the coloring of her skin to me.

    Desmond lived when he blew up the hatch, so why shouldn’t she?

  69. I really don’t think the nuke “worked” by reverting everything. That might work as the last or next to last episode of the series, but not at this point.
    It’s still possible that detonating the bomb caused the effects of the Incident, but I’m leaning towards something else. Maybe the nuke actually kept the incident from being worse than it was. Maybe releasing the energy at the Swan would have destroyed the island/the world, and the nuke checked it somehow (granted, this makes no sense scientifically, but Faraday seemed to think it might do something similar). But it didn’t eliminate the energy source. To keep that kind of situation from happening again, Dharma set up the Hatch to control the energy release.

    In other words, the Losties (Juliet, really) saved everyone by detonating the bomb, but that also led (indirectly) to 815 crashing on the island.

    Also, I think the “they’re coming” comment by Jacob refers to the time-travelling Losties.

  70. So, you find it believable that one would blow up a nuke (without being briefed on the idea by the way) that would at worst kill all of them and the people they came back to the island to save, and at best erase her entire history with the man she loves because he “ogled” someone.

    I don’t.

  71. John K,

    I find it believable if only for the reason I’ve known people that would do that.

    you can call it crazy or irrational if you want but people are crazy at times.

  72. Jennifer,

    Desmond lived when he blew up the hatch, so why shouldn’t she?

    Big difference between releasing magnetic energy and nuclear energy. It is understandable that Desmond survived, but there’s no chance in hell the people close to the nuclear blast survived, at least not on that timeline.

  73. Bilko,

    To keep that kind of situation from happening again, Dharma set up the Hatch to control the energy release.

    How can the Dharma folks rebuild the entire Swan Station over a site that just had a nuclear detonation? The radiation would take a while to clear. If that pocket of magnetic energy were still unstable, they would never get the chance to put all that metal around the pocket to recreate their Swan Station.

  74. Dan: we might get to a conclusion that the Jacob that Richard, Ben, and everyone else on the island thinks is Jacob is none other than Jacob’s Nemesis!

    This is VERY interesting – first time I’ve seen this idea anywhere, that Nemesis might have been calling the shots for awhile, or at least some of the time.

    Dan: Smokey is in cahoots with JN. Smokey (as Alex) told Ben to listen to what JN asked him to do or Smokey would kill Ben.

    But I disagree with this. If Smokey turns out to the a person/person-type entity, I might have the nuke the place myself.

    I’m really hoping that it’s not that stupid; I hope that Smokey turns out to be a natural island phenomenon, perhaps with a hallucinogenic property, that causes people in heightened emotional states to see what they want/need to see.

  75. John K: So, you find it believable that one would blow up a nuke (without being briefed on the idea by the way) that would at worst kill all of them and the people they came back to the island to save, and at best erase her entire history with the man she loves because he “ogled” someone.

    I don’t.

    Once again, you’re looking at this rationally. That’s where you’re going wrong.

    Look at this from Juliet’s perspective. She’s been stuck on craphole island, having seen all sorts of weird, crazy, mythical, unbelievable stuff.

    She’s desperate to get home. It’s pretty clear that’s nearly impossible at this point. She thought she had a life with Sawyer, and now that’s gone. And, as I said before, it wasn’t one “ogle.” It was a long series of events and circumstances.

  76. Coupled with the conversation between Jack and Sawyer, I think the message was that grand intentions are one thing, but in the end, people do what they do for personal reasons.

  77. I hope that Smokey turns out to be a natural island phenomenon, perhaps with a hallucinogenic property, that causes people in heightened emotional states to see what they want/need to see.

    I sure hope that’s not the case. (I’m confident it’s not)

  78. Dan -

    Maybe it is just the 1.21 jiggawatts they needed for time travel. lol

    I have no idea how any of them could survive nuclear blast. Maybe there was no nuclear blast. Maybe 1977 Jacob contained it. I just think that nothing has changed and that they are all alive, somehow.

  79. Going back to the question of Locke’s being dead, I think it’s quite clear that every returning dead person has been Nemesis. This is his only way of interacting with and influencing the living.

    Once the time skipping began, he had his opportunity to get Locke killed and assume his form to more effectively manipulate the Others and the Losties. Think about the things Christian said to living Locke. Think about what dead Alex said to Ben about doing everything Locke told him. Think about what apparently resurrected but really dead Locke told Richard to say to living, time-skipping Locke.

    Locke was favored by Jacob and became the leader of the Others. Once Locke had that influence, the presence of his corpse on the island would allow Nemesis to have great influence in Locke’s form, in addition to what influence he already had by taking the forms of the other dead. Nemesis clearly orchestrated the whole thing, thus finding his loophole.

    For whatever reason, the rules don’t allow Nemesis to kill Jabob himself, so he found a way to get someone else to do it for him. But he needed to get Richard on board to find Jacob, and he needed Ben (or someone, but who better?) to kill Jacob.

    (It would be interesting to analyze everything the dead have done and said throughout the series to verify this theory, but I don’t have the time.)

  80. Going back to the question of Locke’s being dead, I think it’s quite clear that every returning dead person has been Nemesis. This is his only way of interacting with and influencing the living.

    I’m leaning heavily toward this theory myself. But can he control more than one undead at a time. Remember Claire and Christian were together in the ghost shack.

    I also wonder how (if at all) the Whispers factor into this.

    (It would be interesting to analyze everything the dead have done and said throughout the series to verify this theory, but I don’t have the time.)

    Someone, somewhere on the Internet is surely all over this.

  81. I also think there’s a strong possibility that the Nemesis at the beginning of the season finale may have been an undead persona.

  82. Wayne, while that makes some sense there are some problems with it.

    (1) it seems like Jacob wanted the Losties back on the island as well. I think we’ll find that Widmore is helping Nemesis and the mysterious (non-Others?) others are helping Jacob. Exactly how Dharma and what not fit into all this isn’t at all clear. Anyway, if Jacob wants the Losties back and is manipulating things like Locke, why assume only Nemesis is? (We really need a better name – Nemesis sounds like a bad Star Trek movie)

    (2) Multiple dead people at the same time. There was a scene last year with both Claire and Christian. No one has been able to explain this to me yet.

    (3) At least one of the dead people tried to convince Hurley to kill himself while at other times they have been of aid and helping.

    I think the only explanation is that things are more complex than they first appear.

  83. You are on to some things but confused about others. To be sure, the bomb was a new event.

    Enlighten us. How can we know for sure that the bomb was a new event? I’m open to this idea, I just don’t see it as a necessary conclusion at this point.

  84. Also, Micah, if you’re going to plagiarize my post, you might want to at least throw Kulturblog a link. Much obliged.

  85. Hey, how dare you question Micah’s wisdom?! You should just shut down your blog Greg…

    Ha, I kid. I love the Lost posts here, such lively conversation.

  86. Couple of things on the bomb:

    I have no idea on the physics, but is it possible that the energy source and the nuke canceled each other out?

    And what if the bomb didn’t actually go off? It was supposed to go off on impact, but it didn’t – and then the last thing we saw was Juliet hitting it, but we don’t actually know if it exploded. The fade to white might simply have been her death.

    So many people changed their minds throughout this process, I wonder if Sayid deactivated it, or if Richard did something to stop it before that (he seemed only to be following Eloise’s direction, but if he answers to the higher power of Jacob, he might have circumvented the whole thing). It’s also possible that the thing is so old that it doesn’t work properly.

  87. Here’s a quick thought about Richard and his relationship with the two Guys.

    Perhaps Richard KNEW about Guy #2, because he took Locke straight to the statue, and didn’t bother taking Locke to the cabin (whereas Ben did take Locke to the cabin back in season 3, and didn’t dispel Locke of the notion in season 4..so perhaps Ben was serving Guy #2 all along and KNEW that).

    Or, maybe something major happened between 2004-2007 (which we haven’t seen yet) to affect this. Remember, we still haven’t seen the scene where the Losties stole the canoe and shot the pursuing canoe (wouldn’t it be interesting if the folks who saw the canoe stolen, immediately KNEW who was on it and tried to paddle out and kill Locke?)

  88. “Anyway, if Jacob wants the Losties back and is manipulating things like Locke, why assume only Nemesis is?”

    I don’t know that my theory requires that assumption. They may have different macro reasons for wanting the same micro things, and may be at least partly unaware of each others’ intentions.

    “Multiple dead people at the same time. There was a scene last year with both Claire and Christian. No one has been able to explain this to me yet.”

    Perhaps the explanation is as simple as “He can do that.”

    “At least one of the dead people tried to convince Hurley to kill himself while at other times they have been of aid and helping.”

    That could be problematic, though it’s possible that at any given time one tactic might be preferable to another completely different tactic. And you always have the possibility of reverse psychology or the like being used.

  89. I would rather detonate a nuke and have it be all over (and maybe reset) in a millisecond, rather than die a slow and painful death at the bottom of a deep well in a pocket of uncertain and volatile electromagnetic energy for who knows how long.

  90. Clark,

    I think we’ll find that Widmore is helping Nemesis

    I think Widmore is actually helping the real Jacob. Just in the interactions he has had with the Losties, he’s been very nice to them. Not only that, but the team he sent to the Island included Faraday, for a specific purpose, which purpose, I think was to close the loophole that Nemesis was going to use on Jacob.

    (We really need a better name – Nemesis sounds like a bad Star Trek movie)

    Well, I called him the Mysterious Loophole Dude. But that’s probably lamer than Nemesis. :)

  91. Jenny,

    #95,

    I have no idea on the physics, but is it possible that the energy source and the nuke canceled each other out?

    I highly doubt magnetic energy can cancel out nuclear energy. They work on different planes and in different ways. I think nuclear energy can easily destroy magnetic energy, but that’s just a guess.

  92. A nuclear bomb will put out a powerful EMP. However that would likely intensify rather than cancel out some “magnetic abnormality.” However I can say with 100% confidence that setting off a nuclear bomb would not send people at ground zero 30 years into the future.

    The bigger question is why some (say Dr. Chang) manage to survive.

    My guess is that as the bomb starts to detonate the island does something to stop it that has certain side effects. But appealing to physics in all this is a tad silly.

    Your point about Widmore is pretty interesting. Except that the guys who picked up Miles in the van (making him lose his fish taco) weren’t working for Widmore clearly. Yet those are the guys who show up to Jacob with Locke’s body to warn him.

  93. By the way, check out this link — someone made a gif comparing the eye on the preview to a close up of Jack’s eye. Looks pretty convincing.

  94. Wayne sez:

    For whatever reason, the rules don’t allow Nemesis to kill Jacob himself, so he found a way to get someone else to do it for him. But he needed to get Richard on board to find Jacob, and he needed Ben (or someone, but who better?) to kill Jacob.

    But in the very first scene, we see Jacob and JN conversing right in front of Jacob’s home under the statue. Why did JN need Richard to point out Jacob’s location (he asked Richard why they were stopping there) if he already knew where he was?

    I’m also having trouble with the theory expressed by others on this blog that JN is behind all the Losties visions of other people, like Christian. Does that also mean he was responsible for all of Hurley’s visions off-island? Kate’s dream of Claire (why would JN care if Aaron did or did not return to the Island)? If JN was really behind all of them, why did he specifically need Locke’s body? Wayne’s idea that JN inhabited multiple bodies to convince the Others that Locke should be their leader — then ensuring Locke dies so that JN can appear as Locke — seems to be way more complicated than was really necessary. The theory could be undercut by a couple of facts:

    a) Locke was once saved from dying by Ben’s gun by a vision of Walt who told him he still has a job to do. If JN is responsible for that vision, why save him? Why not allow him to die then and there and take over his body?

    b) Why did JN need Locke at all? If he was already visiting the island multiple times before the Ajira flight in 2007, what specific “loophole” did he squeeze through by assuming Locke’s form?

    It’s clear that we need a better understanding of THE RULES. It appears we know from them that JN cannot kill Jacob directly, that Ben and Widemore were not supposed to kill each other’s daughters; and that there is some rule that JN found a way around with his “loophole” (though it’s not clear what that rule is). I hope Season 6 will give us a better understanding of what THE RULES are and why even powerful beings like Jacob and JN are bound by them.

    On another topic: When Jacob appeared to our Losties in the flashbacks, was he time-travelling? If not, does this mean he can foresee the future? I found it interesting that the show made a strong point of noting that Richard was NOT time travelling when he visited Locke at various points in his childhood. If Jacob was not time-travelling in order to “touch” the Losties and ensure their life’s path leads them to the Oceanic flight, we have to consider a couple of other possibilities. One, that Jacob can see the future (and thus, gently interfered in the lives of key participants in his future to ensure a particular outcome). Or two, Jacob is a Diety not being bound by the limits imposed on the rest of us here in space-time (yet still limited by THE RULES). Both of these explanations likely mean that Jacob knew well in advance that his nemesis would find the loophole, assume Locke’s form, and bring Ben to kill him.

    That leads to the other question: If Jacob had foreknowledge of his own “death” by Ben, is he in fact dead, or simply about to assume another form? Or, like Locke before him, does Jacob know that he must die for his ultimate goal to be achieved? And what goal might that be?

  95. If the comparison shot is indeed Jack’s eye, then the season 6 preview is definitely Jack’s eye, in fact it’s the same shot. I don’t care about the colour – check out the eyelashes; they are exactly the same.

    Plus, as I’ve said all along, this show begins and ends with Jack, so why would it be anyone else?

  96. (3) At least one of the dead people tried to convince Hurley to kill himself while at other times they have been of aid and helping.

    – Clark #91

    Are you talking about Dave. Because dave wasn’t one of the Undead. Dave is just a delusion that Hurley had even before he ended up on the island, then reappeared due to stress. I don’t think there’s any connection between Dave and Jacob/Nemesis.

  97. (We really need a better name – Nemesis sounds like a bad Star Trek movie)

    A lot of people are calling him “Esau,” but that seems like a leap to me, and there’s no hint that that’s actually his name.

  98. Greg sez:

    Dave is just a delusion that Hurley had even before he ended up on the island…

    How do we know that? How do we know Dave wasn’t a dead person that Hurley knew before ending up on the Island?

    Jacob made it clear to Hurley that he was not crazy, but in fact seeing real things when he has the visions of the dead people. Why can’t Dave be one of them — someone who died before the events of the crash, and the earliest example of Hurley’s special gift?

    In the episode when Hurley sees Dave on the Island, Dave actually slaps Hurley several times to convince him he is real.

    I don’t think Dave was a delusion any more than Hurley’s other visions. I doubt we will ever know specifically what Dave’s role was/is in the Jacob/JN conflict, but I have no doubt that Dave was as real as the visions of Christian, Claire, Charlie, et. al.

  99. We saw Dave in flashbacks from when Hurley was in a mental institution before he ever arrived on the island. I don’t think Dave has anything to do with the island at all, though I could be wrong.

  100. Clark,

    #101,

    However I can say with 100% confidence that setting off a nuclear bomb would not send people at ground zero 30 years into the future.

    I don’t think Faraday thought it would. I think Faraday (and later Jack) thought that the bomb would most definitely incinerate them entirely. But because they would destroy the mechanism that brought them to the Island, they would not actually be incinerated in the end anyways. It’s the Terminator time travel rule. Jack is like Reece, sent back in time to make sure Sarah Connor lived, and thus ended that ugly future.

    The bigger question is why some (say Dr. Chang) manage to survive.

    They didn’t. They were toast too. Too close by far to the blast zone. But then again, we don’t know how the writers of Lost want to employ that bomb, what rules it will follow. Under normal circumstances, anyone within a few miles radius of the blast is burnt to a crisp.

    Your point about Widmore is pretty interesting. Except that the guys who picked up Miles in the van (making him lose his fish taco) weren’t working for Widmore clearly.

    The inclusion of Nemesis and the Shadow people changed the calculus in my mind completely. Now I don’t see how Ben or Widmore are “big” players at all. It seems they too are pawns, or if not pawns, then bishops or knights. They are certainly not the King and Queen. We’ve got Jacob and anti-Jacob who apparently have supernatural powers far beyond anything Ben or Widmore have at their disposal.

  101. Agree with your last statement Dan. I think each of the levels of power associated with the island are important to the island, but not to the story. The story is about the survivors of Oceanic 815; everything else is just texture and context and illustration for their stories.

  102. But in the very first scene, we see Jacob and JN conversing right in front of Jacob’s home under the statue. Why did JN need Richard to point out Jacob’s location (he asked Richard why they were stopping there) if he already knew where he was?

    Good question. Maybe for show. Everyone is supposed to think he’s Locke. It might make Richard and Ben even more suspicious otherwise.

    Locke was once saved from dying by Ben’s gun by a vision of Walt who told him he still has a job to do. If JN is responsible for that vision, why save him? Why not allow him to die then and there and take over his body?

    Who says the vision of Walt was JN? Walt’s not dead. Jacob may have been responsible for that.

    Why did JN need Locke at all? If he was already visiting the island multiple times before the Ajira flight in 2007, what specific “loophole” did he squeeze through by assuming Locke’s form?

    Locke was Jacob’s new chosen leader for the Others. It is Locke’s influence he was able to use to manipulate Richard and Ben. The loophole specifically was getting someone else to kill Jacob.

    (This is all just a theory of course.)

  103. Wayne’s idea that JN inhabited multiple bodies to convince the Others that Locke should be their leader

    I should add that this is not part of my theory. I think Locke was chosen by Jacob, and once Locke had attained sufficient influence, JN decided to amplify that influence and use Locke’s form. The opportunity presented itself and JN took it. He didn’t create it from scratch.

  104. My favorite little exchange from the finale:

    Sun: What happened to the statue?
    Ben: It was like that when I got here.
    Sun: You expect me to believe that?
    Ben: Not really.

    Awesome episode. Thanks for the write up Greg, much appreciated!

  105. One possible explanation of Christian and Claire in the same scene is that Claire is/was still alive. We don’t have a very good reason to count on her being dead.

    I’m with Wayne on all the dead people being loophole dude. I also suspect he is Smokey. The episode seemed to set up Jacob and loophole dude as gods or demigods in a long cosmic battle. Thus, taking the form of a dead person or a smoke monster don’t seem out of the realm of possibility.

    After looking at the eye pictures meems linked to it looks to me like it is actually the same photograph at a slightly different zoom and a photoshop filter or two. However, I can’t figure out why anyone cares who’s eye it is since we know nothing about the eye so figuring out it is Jack tells us nothing.

  106. The bomb went off. It had to. This is what Eloise has been saying all along. If her son and the losties didn’t go back and fulfill their destiny the world as we know it would end. Just like the fail safe key that Desmond turned. He also saved the world as we know it when he turned the key. God help us all if they didn’t do what they were supposed to do.

    If you’ll notice, all the losties in 1977 had specific purposes. Sayid was there to fix the bomb. Even Hurley drove the van, Miles saved his father. Juliette forced the bomb to explode. Jack became the one who was the man of faith.

    And when the bomb went off we have a repeat of the fail safe key, a repeat of the flash on the plane. They time traveled. Probably to the present. And they are the ones that are coming.

    I think Jack’s comment to Richard about Locke (not giving up on him) is a message to the fans not to count out the character of Locke just yet. Stay tuned – there is more to come.

    I hope the eye is Juliette’s. I want a better resolution for her than that. But I believe the eye is Jack’s laying in the jungle and he will hear hurley in the lake but they will be in the present and not the past.

    And maybe a love interest for Richard is Ilana? Or Sayid? Something will come of that one.

    I think the ultimate argument is about the human race. Are we worth saving? Jacob thinks we are – the other dude thinks we’re not. Jack and Sawyer and Juliette just proved we were worth saving. I agree with the guy who wrote above that it reminded him of the beginning of the book of Job.

    And Jacob will ultimately be the one who saves us all.

  107. Thanks for a great season of recaps.

    It definitely looks like Jack’s eye to me in the photo.

    Maybe someone whose Russian is better than mine could pick up on more than I did — the only thing that seemed potentially significant that doesn’t come out in the English subtitles is that Ilana used the informal “you” when telling Jacob she was very glad to see him.

    Well said, Brian G.

    At first I thought it was strange when I reflected on the fact that Jacob was spinning and weaving because in many cultures it’s traditionally women’s work (there’s obviously Penelope from the Odyssey, but also Arachne and Athena, the three Fates, Ariadne, Philomila who all weave and/or spin; there is also Spider Grandmother, the Creator/Spinner in Dene mythology). However (if what I read on wikipedia is correct; of course, I recognize that that source could be wrong), in ancient Egypt, it was the men who wove, and the words “weaving” and “being” have the same root. Also, there’s a tie to the Jacob of the Old Testament, who made a coat of many colors (or one with long sleeves) for Joseph because he loved him best.

    I still think that whatever happened, happened, and this cockamamie plan caused the Incident, but I guess we won’t know until next season. I also think the “they” who are “coming” are our friends returning from 1977 (but I have no idea how).

  108. The nuclear blast, coupled with the release of the magnetic energy, not only causes the “incident” but also creates a temporal vortex which transports the gang to the present. The bright light was a time travel flash.

  109. how can it cause the Incident if the nuclear blast destroys the Swan station? I can’t possibly see how the Dharma folks (the ones who survived the nuclear blast) could have been able to rebuild the Swan station so that they could hold in check the unstable magnetic energy every 108 minutes!

    If the Incident caused that the magnetic energy became so unstable that every 108 minutes it released itself, then the Swan station would have to have been built and ready to manage the magnetic energy. If the magnetic energy pulls all metal towards the unstable magnetic pocket, then the Dharma folks would only have 108 minutes to rebuild the station before the unstable magnetic energy pulled all metal towards the core.

    I honestly think the Incident was what occurred at the Swan Station before Juliet detonated the bomb. You get Dr. Chang getting his hand hurt, you get a lot of damage, but the station survives. And I’m sure they have enough time to realize that they need to create a method to control that pocket of energy so that it doesn’t release like that again. But they can’t do that if a nuclear bomb went off. The radiation alone would kill them, not to mention the heat of the blast. And the EMP would have wiped out any electrical system too.

  110. I’m just saying that the incident + the blast synergised into something different.

  111. The blast canceled out the problem just like the fail safe key did. Our guys didn’t cause the problem they saved the day. If you go back to dr. chang’s video on the incident, he has a problem with his hand. I think he is actually missing one.

    I don’t think anyone blew up. I think the bomb filled up the hole that the dharma initiative made saving everyone. They are actually unsung heroes. They risked their lives to set everything right.

  112. the writers stated that dave was a figment of hurley’s imagination in a podcast at some point. they also differentiated christian from the smoke monster people like ben’s daughter who was conjured up by smokey.. I don’t know what’s different about him, but he is different. Which gives me hope about Locke not being gone.

  113. Reading through the comments, something just occurred to me regarding the nuke (of the thermo variety, as in H-bomb).

    Before getting into it, let’s not forget that this show is sci-fi and fairly loose in its science as such. It needs a veneer of scientific plausibility for lay people, not total avoidance of any detail that might provoke a correction from a Nobel Prize-winning physicist.

    Anyway, being an H-bomb, the main explosion would be caused by a rapid fusion reaction. And we know that there is an intense magnetic field in this pocket that DHARMA has been drilling into. In experimental fusion reactors for power generation, one of the ways the intense heat required to sustain a fusion reaction (that’s why they’re looking for “cold fusion”) is contained is the application of intense magnetic fields.

    So, my thinking is, that this may be the source of a plausible explanation for the H-bomb/magnetic field cancellation. Perhaps the idea is that somehow the magnetic field in the pocket contains the heat produced by the fusion reaction caused by the detonation of the H-bomb, and, in doing so, the magnetic field’s energy is consumed without causing great destruction.

    Again, this isn’t hard science, but it doesn’t have to be to make a good television show. The source of the drama on Lost isn’t scientific accuracy, which would be lost (no pun intended) on most viewers in any case.

  114. OK, I know you said, “veneer of scientific plausibility,” so forgive me if I wax pedantic. But that wouldn’t work. (Cold fusion is also slightly different as it is fusion catalyzed by muons although work since the great debacle of the early 90′s has focused on tiny holes in platinum that might generate high enough pressures for small scale fusion – although it’s still a field with a dirty reputation) Magnetic fusion and the somewhat close inertial confinement fusion (basically hitting tritium with lasers rather than using a magnetic pinch) is similar to what you say. However in an H-bomb the device is fairly simple. You blow up some synchronized explosives. That creates a small nuclear explosion that compresses tritium to reach a hydrogen explosion. (The details are slightly different, but that’s close enough)

    If the magnetic field was to screw this up the place it would probably do it isn’t in the magnetic field doing the compression. That’s simply a more “traditional” shock wave. Rather it would screw up the wires leading to the perfectly synchronized explosions. If the symmetry of the explosion isn’t just perfect then you don’t get sufficient compression and you don’t get a nuclear explosion. (This sort of thing happens all the time when you are testing devices)

  115. Patti, looking at the entry at the Lostpedia (dang what a great resource) the producers only said Libby’s Dave and Hurley’s Dave might not be the same. They talk about Dave as imaginary Dave, so you might be right there. That said I’m not sure the Dave on the Island isn’t tied to Jacob or his Nemesis.

  116. Maybe Dave, then, is an important clue to JN’s methods. If as many have suggested, JN is using dead people to manipulate the living, is he plucking the images of those people from the minds of the Losties? If so, he may have erred when assuming the form of Dave, since Dave is not a real person. Maybe Hurley figures this out sometime in Season 6, which provides a clue to the Losties on how to get out of the mess, and defeat the “bad guys” keeping them there.

    Perhaps also, JN had to work especially hard to convince Richard he was Locke, so he manipulated events to set Locke on a time-travelling journey to meet up with Richard multiple times over a 40-year period. That would be pretty convincing to Richard…

  117. Jacob J sez:

    I think Jack’s comment to Richard about Locke (not giving up on him) is a message to the fans not to count out the character of Locke just yet. Stay tuned – there is more to come.

    How about Season 6 featuring two Lockes?

    Now that Jacob is (apparently) dead, why not have HIM assume Dead Locke’s body? I know it has an evil-twin-brother ring to it, but I find it more than coincidental that Ilana brings a dead body at the same moment Jacob is “killed.” JN has been spending years setting up this moment; it seems to be clear from the finale that Jacob spent an equal amount of time preparing for it (meeting/touching the key Losties, putting Ilana and her crew on the Ajira flight, etc.). Was Jacob planning to have a dead body deposited on his doorstep the moment his nemesis has him killed? Hmmm.

  118. With regard to Jacob’s adversary’s possible methods, keep in mind that at least one dead person has appeared without their corpse being physically on the Island–Ben’s mother (seen by young Ben in “The Man Behind the Curtain.”) It was she who lured him out into the jungle, leading to a fateful meeting with Richard…

  119. at least one dead person has appeared without their corpse being physically on the Island–Ben’s mother

    Not to mention Kate’s friend, the horse.

  120. The actor of Locke thinks Locke is completely done. But then with the exception of the guy who plays Jack, I don’t think too many of the actors have a clue what is going on. Reading some interviews it sounds like even a lot of the writers don’t. It also sounds like it wasn’t until the 2cd season that a lot of the mythos was thought up. (i.e. originally the voices whispering were just supposed to be the Others whereas now they have a more mysterious role – maybe dead people talking and observing?)

  121. Clark,

    See that’s what I thought too. Season one and seasons 3-5 just don’t add up. Season 2 is directionless until Michael Emerson steals the show as Ben.

  122. I don’t know that it is directionless. But clearly it was pretty vague what was going on. I think elements were developing nicely. Clearly there were mysterious ghostly elements. I just don’t think the nature of the Others was fully in place. I think by the end of season 1 though a lot of the mythos of Dharma was in place.

  123. I believe the writers had an over-arching theme in mind from the very beginning. I think Season 2 suffered from a “how long will this show be on the air and how much should we stretch out the clues” syndrome. Perhaps by the time they began on Season 3, they decided that this was going to be a six-season story arc, and began to pace it accordingly. Season 4 hurt their plans because of the writer’s strike and forced them to revealing clues at a faster pace because of the fewer number of episodes.

    Season 5 was my favorite. It had enough episodes that more details about the characters could be fleshed out, and paced the clues and plot twists properly. Can’t wait for next season!

  124. Whoops. Typo. Yeah. My brain thought palladium and my hands typed platinum.

    I agree the writers strike hurt things. I think we’d have gotten some more facts. Stupid writers strike that accomplished nothing except to make shows worse.

  125. If anything I think we missed some extra texture because of the strike – more on Charlotte, and more on Miles before now, more on Danielle (I was really disappointed that after the long wait, the backstory was so thin, in spite of some good casting). The shortened season meant they had to prioritize, likely at the expense of the sidebar stories that so many fans love.

  126. Great episode. Loved the Rose and Bernard scene. In fact, it was my second favorite scene of the season after the Hugo/Miles Back to the Future time travel discussion. I took it as a bit of fourth wall breaking self-depricating humor.

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