Best post-Beatles British Pop-Cultural Imports
In ascending order:
10: Wallace & Gromit (If you don’t love it, I’m not sure how you can look at yourself in the mirror)
9: Kate Winslett (Makes great films, an incredible actress, and ravishingly beautiful to boot)
8: Paul Greengrass (Not familiar with his entire CV, but the Bourne sequels are some of the best genre films in years, and United 93 was one of the most compelling films I’d seen in quite some time. Really, really looking forward to future output)
7: Early Elton John (Anything eligible for his first Greatest Hits album)
6: Queen (With a notable exception [see below], better music hasn’t crossed the pond in decades)
5: The Lord of The Rings trilogy (Not much to say here, really)
4: Masterpiece Theater (Some of the best stuff that consistently appears on American television)
3: Heavy Metal (Fans of everything from Iron Maiden to GnR to Tool owe an enormous debt to the sound innovations of Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath)
2: Ricky Gervais (Extras was terrific. The Office is absolutely the best, funniest, most compelling sitcom ever produced)
1: Radiohead (No qualifier needed)
Yours truly,
Cinnamon J. Scudworth
Posted on February 26, 2008, in Pop Culture. Bookmark the permalink. 74 Comments.
Steve Evans
RJH
Scott B.
John C.
Susan M
Aaron Brown
ninemoons
John Harrison
kulturblogadmin
Kyle M
Brad
KulturBlogGuest
MCQ
Wm
Rebecca
Ivan
Geoff J
btdgreg
Clark Goble
Aaron R.
Tim J
Ben
Marcus
Brad Williams
gibsonbn
it’s hard to even make a list like this because, let’s face it, we’ve imported a lot of great stuff from over there.
I love your 1 and 2. Nevertheless (and despite the nods to LZ, BS, Sir Elton, and Queen), do they indicate a little current culture bias??? The list leans that way overall.
A couple of additions: Monte Python and the Clash…
Yeah, heavy metal, fine. But also the Sex Pistols, the Clash, the Buzzcocks, Siouxsie Sioux, and even David Bowie?
Also the Lord of the Rings trilogy might better fit a post-Beatles New Zealand pop-cultural imports list? Unless you mean the novels, but they predate the Beatles.
Kate Winslett? Please.
What about Rowan Atkinson?
How could you leave off Monty Python?
Radiohead at number 1? Pffft. Most overrated band ever (except for Nirvana).
I second the vote for Python. But Jeremy is right, how can you possibly choose ten?
Jeremy,
Mea Culpa. Current culture bias comes with the territory when you’re my age. And by admitting that Monty Python should have been included, I am acknowledging your insightful comment and not Susan’s blasphemous one.
Cast my vote with Susan on Radiohead. Pffft.
But seriously, you left off Python? Come now!
The Office is absolutely the best, funniest, most compelling sitcom ever produced
Other than Arrested Development you mean. Of course the British influence on that show is undeniable (banger in the mouth, pussy, Wee Britain, etc.)
Basil Fawlty.
I hope you’re referring the her low placement on the list. She’s the number one British import in my book.
Mark – agreed. Basil is a national treasure, as are Blackadder and Monty Python. Comedy is something I think we do well. (and Ricky Gervais is rightly included for that)
The list really could be tripled and still be missing things.
I think if I remember rightly, most Masterpiece Theater stuff was produced by the BBC. you just can’t beat many of the beeb’s (especially costume) dramas and wildlife shows
#10 should be higher, somehow =D
How about James Bond? (I guess the novels predate the Beatles, too.)
You could argue that Coupling led to Friends, which was a pretty big impact on TV.
In no particular order off the top of my head:
Music:
Led Zepplin
Pink Floyd
Eric Clapton
Radiohead
Actors:
Sean Connery
Rowan Atkin
Hugh Laurie
Sean Bean
Shows:
Black Adder
Wallace and Grommit
Sherlock Holmes
Monty Python
Does an imitation of a British import count? If so, the old SNL skectches where Dan Ackroyd performs as Leonard Pinth-Garnell need to be considered.
Check it out.
Kate Winslet? What about: Kate Beckinsale? Sienna Miller? Rachel Weisz? Thandie Newton? Elizabeth Hurley? Kristin Scott Thomas? Helena Bonham Carter? Catherine McCormack? Keira Knightly? Emily Watson? Catherine Zeta-Jones? If you want pure acting talent, what about Judi Dench and Helen Mirren? Winslet isn’t even the best Kate import, let alone the best British import. I think she also loses to the Aussie imports: Cate Blanchett and Naomi Watts.
Father Ted.
I third the Radiohead = pfffft vote.
You can’t possibly rank Radiohead #1. No matter how much you may like them right now, their significance pales in comparison with at least 10 other British bands I can think of.
Can’t believe no one’s mentioned The Young Ones.
Red Dwarf.
I’d put Benny Hill on the list before I’d put Radiohead.
Re: Rusty #7
Arrested Development’s whole Wee Britain thing cracks me up everytime I drive through Orange County. Which is often since I live in the OC. (“Don’t call it that!”) There’s all these ethnic areas, like Little Saigon, and then you have Newport Beach—whiteyville. “Wee Britian” was pure genius.
How about Fry and Laurie as Jeeves and Wooster?
Surely that ought to be on the list somewhere.
Um, hello? Pink Floyd much?
I tried to get into Jeeves and Wooster but never could.
I like Red Dwarf but it just wasn’t great enough to meet the cut.
MCQ, even if you don’t like Radiohead you have to admit they were the most important band in the era from 1995 – 2005. Nothing else came close. Are they as great as a lot of bands from the 60′s or 70′s? Probably not. But list me 5 bands from Britain more important from 1990 – 2007.
Most would probably agree with you, Clark. But I’d take Portishead, the Frames, PJ Harvey (!!), Teenage Fanclub, Ash, Blur, Muse, Coldplay, Snow Patrol, Damien Rice, David Gray, McClusky, heck even Keane over Radiohead anyday.
From 1982 to 1987 there was a remarkable band called the Smiths.
That’s about the last original music/band I’ve heard.
I’m not saying that there aren’t a lot of talented musicians out there – but they pretty much all are derivative of some previous artist or band that did it better.
Also, I don’t think U2 should be discounted.
Harry Potter.
Let’s see…
Music:
Glam: T-Rex, Bowie
Punk: The Clash, The Sex Pistols, The Buzzcocks, The Jam
New Wave: The Cure, Joy Division/New Order
Acid House: The Stone Roses
90s Brit Pop: Blur, Travis
Television:
Prime Suspect
Cracker
State of Play
The Singing Detective
Black Adder
Movies:
Kenneth Braunaugh
Ben Elton
Anthony Hopkins
Emma Thompson
Jim MacEvoy
Comedy:
Monty Python
Simon Pegg/Edgar Write/Nick Frost
Webb and Mitchell
Books:
Harry Potter
Nick Hornby
That’s really just scratching the surface. I agree with others that the LOTR trilogy doesn’t qualify. The books are pre-Beatles and the movies are pure Kiwi.
#24 – Except they’re not British.
I can’t believe that the Teletubbies didn’t make the list.
Am I really the only Father Ted fan around here?
You radiohead haters are all suffering from what I call radiohead derangement syndrome. Kulturblog is a cesspool of RDS. Admit it: you just hate them so you can feel special for hating something that everyone else loves. It’s OK to admit. That’s why I hate Springsteen.
Well, Monty Python, of course, as has been mentioned.
And definitely Harry Potter.
And what about Oasis?? Hello? Oasis?
And all those incredible British Mystery shows – Prime Suspect being my favorite, but Frost, Silent Witness, Inspector Morse, MI-5, even The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes.
And all those other wonderful bands (The Jam! Bowie!)
I’d take Radiohead over Oasis.
And I realized about half the bands I mentioned aren’t English. I somehow was thinking British = UK, not just English. Irish musicians have it all over the English from ’95-now.
Well, “importance” is a relative term, so I guess I would have to know more about your criteria. I’m not a Radiohead hater, far from it, but to me, ranking Radiohead #1 on a list that claims to be the “Best Post-Beatles Pop-Cultural Imports” is deeply and remarkably prejudiced in favor of a band you currently like.
The Kate Winslet thing is just baffling to me.
MCQ, the entire list is deeply and remarkably prejudiced in favor of stuff I currently like. That’s what makes these things the “best” as opposed to “most influential,” “most important,” whatever. How else could Kate Winslet have possibly made the list past Sir Anthony or the disarming Emma Thompson?
This discussion has caused me to rethink 2 things: 1) the LoR trilogy should be replaced outright with Monty Python; 2) the street cred of a person who argues that Coldplay is a better band than Radiohead can simply no longer be considered unassailable.
If Radiohead = street cred, we’re all in trouble.
I can appreciate they have talent and a lot of people are completely gaga over them—and I’ve always thought if I’d seen them live when you could still see them at smallish venues, I would’ve really enjoyed it. I just can’t listen to them for any length of time. I’ve tried. There’s very few bands I can say that about. It’s mostly the vocals.
Coldplay, on the other hand, I can listen to everyday for a year and not get sick of them. I know this because it happened (they were always on the stereo at one of my workplaces).
Susan,
Don’t tell an Irishman that he’s British or from the UK, unless he’s a Protestant from Northern Ireland.
Susan – U2 are from the Republic of Ireland. Only Northern Ireland is part of the UK/British.
Yes, I realized I just insulted a whole nation with my comment #24. And comment #22. Hopefully the last sentence of comment #32 makes up for it.
Sometimes I think Radiohead are just a mix of Pink Floyd and U2.
oops – sorry – The Brit beat me to that answer.
The following link is essential for all of us who get confused with the UK/Britian/Great Britain/Ireland/Northern Ireland/British Isles nomenclature:
http://qntm.org/?uk
I’m not a Radiohead fan (though “radiohead derangement syndrome” doesn’t quite capture my ambivalence toward them), but I will say that Radiohead > Coldplay. Coldplay is Radiohead-Lite.
I also never quite understood the Oasis appeal. To me, they always just sounded like an annoying version of The Candyskins.
Let me check the forecast. Outlook today: Your Favorite Band Sucks.
Holy crap… Radiohead??
Foisting that a-melodic suckfest on us in the U.S. (via the army of critics with their incessant drumbeat of pro-Radiohead spin) was about as welcome as a new stamp tax in my opinion.
(I’d say Coldplay is Radiohead with actual melodies and less whiny singing)
Susan, funny, my Radiohead/Coldplay reaction is about the opposite of yours. I can listen to Radiohead for hours and not get sick of them. Coldplay I can only take for a couple of songs at a time. And, yikes, the singing? Coldplay’s is terrible…
Father ted – but then it led to My Hero…. Ardal O’Hanlon is brilliant tho, But not british.
Heres my future hopes
Life on Mars – John Simm and Phillip Gleniester. I wasn’t as in love with John Simm until I saw him as the Master.
Christopher Eccleston is amazing.
Top Gear. This should be American, as we are such a car culture here, but we take our cars too seriously or too much as an appliance here I guess. Can you imagine the brilliant challenges we could do.
I can’t listen to Neil Young for very long, either, yet spend days, months, years listening to several bands/singers that sound just like him.
Susan, I love Portishead although I didn’t know they were British. (I thought they were from California) I’m not sure I could put them as the “greatest” though. Radiohead, to me, is vastly better even if I was underwhelmed by their last album.
Coldplay is very good as well. But great? I don’t know. That one is touch and go.
Blur? Come on. Maybe his work on Gorillaz but not as Blur. Even Gorillaz isn’t that great.
Danithew the Smiths/Morrisey was one I seriously thought of. Ditto with David Bowie.
What’s with all this Radiohead = Coldplay. Radiohead has a huge Jazz influence and is amazingly complex. Plus they experiment with some pretty wild instruments. Check out National Anthem or Idioteque. There’s no comparison although I do agree there’s a strong Pink Floyd influence there.
One band I forgot and I could kill myself for forgetting is The Police! How on earth could I not mention The Police and Sting? (Back together for a tour this year)
Neil Young is Canadian though, not British. I love his Unplugged Album. I agree that overall he is someone I take in small doses. But then that’s true of Radiohead, Miles Davis or a few other greats.
Oh. Since I added The Police let me make five in each category.
Show: Faulty Towers
Actor: John Cleese
Canadian, British, Irish, whatever! (I knew he was Canadian)
I’d have to agree that the Police/Sting belong on there somewhere.
Surprised no one has mentioned the Spice Girls as starting the popular trend for Girl Bands. Maybe because the list has “best” in it? =)
Duran Duran was quite influential in the new wave scene. How about the Pet Shop Boys?
http://www.asaltandbattery.com/
Just as a note – I’ve been to the place linked above and shared a deep-fried Mars bar with my special someone. Not that I think it belongs on the hallowed TOP TEN list but I _do_ wonder whether or not the deep-fried Mars bar counts as a post-Beatles British Pop-Cultural import.
How did I fail to mention that I am in agreement with the “Radiohead sucks” crowd? But I’ll keep trying … due to the hype and aggrandizement I truly wonder if hearing the right album or track would cause the scabs to fall from my eyes.
Someone actually dared to bring up Duran Duran, Spice Girls and Pet Shop Boys in this context?
I can only respond to that by mentioning the not-sufficiently-appreciated band Squeeze. Along with Lennon and McCartney, Morrissey and Marr – Difford & Tilbrook deserve some appreciation as a dynamic songwriting duo. Plus they had the fancy-schmancy weirdo piano player named Jools Holland. Really, Squeeze was quite a good band.
That FHL comment is on target as a comment in response to this post – but it links to an ad-page.
Clark #21: “list me 5 bands from Britain more important from 1990-2007″
Well, Clark, to prove my point that Radiohead shouldn’t be #1 on this list, I only have to list one band. But I’ll play along and name as many post-Beatles British bands or musicians as I can that are better or more important than Radiohead (in no particular order):
The Rolling Stones
The Who
David Bowie
Eric Clapton
The Clash
The Sex Pistols
Pink Floyd
Led Zeppelin
Genesis/Peter Gabriel/Phil Collins
The Moody Blues
Queen
Supertramp
Roxy Music/Brian Ferry/Brian Eno
The Police/Sting
Joy Division/New Order
Depeche Mode
Tears For Fears
The Smiths/Morrissey
The Cure
Talk Talk
Oasis
Stereophonics
Snow Patrol
And this is from a guy who actually likes Radiohead.
The Rolling Stones aren’t post Beatles. Neither are The Who. Post-Beatles would mean bands that got big after 1970.
Genesis I disagree with (sorry)
Clapton, Pink Floyd, and Zeppelin I listed ahead of Radiohead.
The Clash, Sex Pistols, Moody Blues, and so forth I disagree with.
Queen is probably on par.
The Police is better and I regretted that omission (see my comments above)
New Order, Roxy Music, Smiths, Cure were probably just below Radiohead (I mentioned them all I believe)
Oasis I can’t believe you even listed.
Tears for Fears is good. I don’t think they are on par with the others.
Bowie, as I mentioned, was borderline. I can understand folks putting him above Radiohead even if I wouldn’t.
Queen is probably on par.
Speechless.
Maybe this won’t make a difference in how Clark sees things – but the Smiths are cited as an influence on Radiohead and not the other way around.
I suppose some artists/bands influence other artists/bands who become much greater … (example: Chuck Berry and the Beatles) – but it’s still at least something to think about.
A list of objective criteria in judging artists/bands would be a useful but so far I don’t know of anyone who has produced such a thing.
One thing I want to do is sit down with Radiohead albums and listen to them all, track by track. It’s homework I need to do so that I can either stand by my snark or ultimately confess I was wrong. I’ve sampled albums like OK Computer before but it seems on this blog the Radiohead debate keeps arising – and each time the fans and antis seem to be more fierce about it.
danithew:
Weird, must’ve lost the address. Now, it’s http://www.kingsxrocks.com (I approve!)
But now the URL on my hat is wrong… =(
Clark: First of all, any band that released material after the Beatles broke up is a post-Beatles band in my book. I don’t see how you can see it any other way.
Genesis is maybe a judgment call to some (not to me), but if you include all of Gabriel and Collins I believe I have the weight of opinion on my side.
The Clash and the Sex Pistols are seminal bands. “London Calling” has been called by many the greatest rock album ever produced. As in “ever.” Whether you like those bands or not, their importance is not realistically in dispute, and Radiohead just doesn’t have the history behind them to compete (yet?).
Oasis was an important band for their time, and I believe is comparable to Radiohead in terms of influence:
Oasis have sold approximately twice as many albums as Radiohead. So there’s no use getting all bent out of shape about their inclusion in my list, cuz that dog won’t hunt.
nah. if they were releasing music contemporaneously with the beatles, they are a beatles contemporary, not post-beatles. I guess you could also say that if they started sometime after the beatles released their first album, and thus, could have been influenced by the beatles, they were a post-beatles band too. but I like the first formulation better.
also, there is way, way, WAY too much radiohead hating on this blog. I like keane and I like coldplay, but they are just in an entirely different category. radiohead are in the same category as queen. coldplay is in the same category as the turtles.
and, oasis is a really good band. but more derivative than almost anything else from my generation. even more than nirvana. you can’t say, for example, that such and such new band “sounds like oasis.” that would be meaningless. if someone “sounds like oasis,” then they just sound like the beatles, along with a million other bands (including oasis) that sound like the beatles.
#55- Me too. Speechless. Pfffft!
Because this discussion is not acknowledging the sheer, unabashed genius of Pink Floyd, it all becomes hogwash.
also, there is way, way, WAY too much radiohead hating on this blog
Heck no — there is no such thing as way too much Radiohead hating.
Oasis I can’t believe you even listed.
OK, Clark, I was just about to buy a whole ton of the Ocumare, but now… I just don’t know.
What kind of category is Queen in that Radiohead also belong in?
(You got something against the Turtles?)
LOL – I’ll recant to seek after filthy mammon.
Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, and Clapton are all in a class of their own though. With the Police only a whit behind. There’s such a big gap between those guys and everyone else that all this debate about Radiohead seems almost pointless.
“What kind of category is Queen in that Radiohead also belong in?”
Uh, Best post-Beatles British Pop-Cultural Imports.
Susan, how about this category: “Radiohead and bands it is better than.”
Or one that you and I could agree fits both bands, but for different reasons: “Things that pale in comparison to one another.”
Maybe it’s time to bring back a music deathmatch. You could put up songs by Radiohead, Oasis and Queen. Let them fight it out.
The question of whether Radiohead is any good is completely unanswerable, obviously. I think they are great but I can’t give any reasons why anybody else should like them. Nobody should like any music, as far as I’m concerned. But this much is undeniable, no matter your opinion of the music: OK Computer is part of the Rock canon (assuming you believe a “Rock canon” exists). Off the top of my head I can’t think of another album from the past fifteen years that is indisputably part of the canon. There are strong candidates, but none are as much of a slam-dunk as OK Computer. So if you want to make lists of bands/cultural phenomena based on what you like, by all means leave off Radiohead and I’ll leave off Coldplay. But if a list of post-Beatles British imports is based on what has been culturally significant/important, Radiohead has to be on it, or at least given close consideration.
I’d say Coldplay’s A Rush of Blood the the Head is in the canon, albeit lower down.
It’s interesting as an aside that there have been so few ‘canonized’ albums the last 10 years. Even if you have albums you like (and I certainly have) one has to admit that the last 10 – 12 years have been pretty dismal music-wise compared to the prior decades.
Clark, I think the paucity of canonized rock albums over the past decade is a function of two trends: 1) the concomitant rise of the download and decline of the album and 2) the decreasing popularity of Rock relative to Hip Hop and Hip Hop-inflected pop. In my book, there have been several all-time great albums over the past decade from the likes of the Flaming Lips, Wilco, Sufjan Stevens, as well as some other solid emerging rock acts like the White Stripes, Arcade Fire, the Shins, etc. But the music scene is so fragmented and the kids aren’t real focused on Rock, so the good stuff that comes along, and like I say, I think there’s a fair amount of it, doesn’t get consensus “canonization.” That’s why I say I can think of a few real good candidates for being in the canon (In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, A Soft Bulletin), but none that are slam-dunks. These kinds of albums make a splash among critics and indie fans, but in the wider music world, they hardly make a ripple.
I suspect that people who have a wider taste and who really like the stuff that’s selling could name some recent albums that they consider canonized. Stuff like Kanye or Eminem, I guess. From that kind of fan’s perspective, the music world probably seems really dynamic and exciting.
I think Hip Hop has a lot to do with it except that so much Hip Hop is kind of uninspired. (The Hip Hop situation today reminds me of disco in the late 70′s) That’s not to say there haven’t been some fantastic Hip Hop albums. But not enough to really justify the lack of innovation and progression in the genre.
But look at pop music as well. The rise of boy bands and then the uninspired rock-rap mimicks and the Blink 182 clones.
I agree there have been some good albums. (And I’d list some of the same as you)
The bit about the rise of iTunes is a good point. I think the collapse of the music labels and the problem of radio stations might be even a bigger issue.
While I don’t listen to it, I think one has to conced that Eminem, Dre, Snoop and many others produced very important albums. Even if I’d always pick groups like Jurassic-5, Blackaliscious and othes well above them.
# 64, see # 66.
What I was thinking though was something along the lines of, “clearly not the beatles, but more than just another ‘good band,’ — innovative, memorable, unique, one of a kind.” Yeah, that category, whatever that is.
And no, I have nothing against the Turtles (or the Zombies). I also have nothing against Coldplay or Keane (I like both of those bands). I just don’t think the Turtles compare to a band like Queen (a special, unique, one of a kind band). I think the same comparison applies to Coldplay and Radiohead. Coldplay is a good band with good songs, no doubt. But they’re just that — another good band with good songs. Radiohead is something more (to me at least – I absolutely agree with #69 Tom’s comments).
re: rock canon – The Soft Bulletin?