Posted by Steve Evans
This thread is for discussing the last Harry Potter book. It’s meant for those who have read the book, and may contain spoilers.
I can’t believe Hagrid was a WOMAN!!
Posted on July 23, 2007, in Books. Bookmark the permalink. 168 Comments.
Not sure where to post this- but can you guys do Flight of the Conchords recaps? I volunteer if nobody else wants to do it.
Seriously, someone give me the spoilers! I want to know!
MAJOR SPOILER ALERT. Tracy M asked for it.
I’m not going to summarize the whole book, but Snape is loyal, Harry dies…and lives…everyone that is dead stays dead, some ancillary characters die.
I want to know what the gurgling screaming baby-like creature was. My guess is that it is You-know-who’s soul, having been diminished by the destruction of most of the horcruxes.
Oh, and yay Neville! Unlike RAF (not to be confused with RAB) I’m not aching for more book. It was satisfying and I think it was the best HP book yet.
Nice try, Tracy. You have to EARN it.
Anna, if you email submissions to the address listed in the ‘About Kulturblog’ section, we’ll gladly take a look at ‘em.
I liked it overall, but there were a couple of ridiculous moments of deus ex machina that even outstripped the ones from previous books.
For instance, Voldemort hides the tiara or whatever it was in a room stacked floor to ceiling with stuff yet he’s absolutely sure NOBODY else knows about it? I mean, c’mon! (said in best GOB voice)
Also, that epilogue was a wet fart.
Okay, so I was right about Harry being a horcrux, and being willing to die, but not dying (well, ok, he died, but came back), Snape being loyal and dying heroically, Dumbledore staying dead (although I thought his portrait acted more alive than it should have) Snape having a thing for Lily, and Neville saving the day. I was wrong about Neville dying while saving the day. I never would have predicted Fred’s death, which made me very sad.
I thought it was a pretty good wrap-up. Series almost never end gracefully, but this is one of the better final books I’ve read.
Petty complaint: does everybody in the Wizarding world decide who to marry by age 16?! I mean, I know it’s a small world, so there might not be much to choose from, but c’mon.
Yeah, I like how they do it on Friends.
I think that with all the stuff they went through together, it would bind them forever. Who knows, maybe they did break up, and then get back together.
I thought the book was fantastic! Sure it had a few minor problems here and there, but so does every book. I actually wrote a mini review about it here
I actually thought the epilogue was a good idea. With no epilogue, Rowling would have been pestered evermore to provide details about what happened next. The epilogue answers pretty much all those questions by showing as normal adults living normal lives, raising kids and being happy about it. For Harry, who never had that as a kid because of Voldemort, this is huge.
Yeah, but I didn’t like how the epilogue set up a possible spin off series with Albus. I don’t know what it would center on, but that’s all I kept thinking about while reading it.
And I thought the principals got off light with the killing. I was expecting much, much more…
I’m in Snape death denial. No portrait of the greasy git as headmaster, right? La-la-la-la-la, I can’t hear you.
The epilogue was a wet fart because it didn’t match the rest of the book, and it didn’t include all the characters I wanted to hear about.
Other than that, thought it was fab. Dobby’s death hit me really hard. Put the book down and sob, hard.
I was not a fan of the epilogue. Too tidy, I prefer to wonder. I was also expecting more of a bloodbath. Lupin & Tonks deaths were just skimmed over.
Snape’s death was the hardest part of the book for me. I liked how they’d really started to bring out the complexity of his character. Of couse, I’m glad no one came back from the dead, which is the point where I’d lose respect for the series.
All in all though, I thought it was a great book with a fitting ending. I could hardly put it down from the second I got it.
I thought it was a fun book — it went by quickly. I didn’t need the epilogue, either. Poor Hedwig!
First of all, I always knew deep down in Neville there lied a bad ass waiting. Totally happy with that
Melissa Dm states that the death of Lupin and Tonks was skimmed over; To be honest, I thought it was perfect. I read that line over and over in disbelief at how final it was. Rowling gave us deaths we never saw coming, and deaths we refused to believe.
With the finality of the demise of Lupin and Tonks, we realize Sirius was a godfather to an orphaned boy, much as Harry was to Teddy. It resounded in my head when Lupin first said Harry was the godfather; I kept wondering if he was to die as Sirius did, if Rowling would just repeat this cycle, giving us what we all figured HAD to be the end.
Then the epilogue. Everyone is hating on it…it did nothing but bring a smile to my face the whole time I was reading it.
I remembered when I read things in Order of the Phoenix and HBP that just seemed like filler, and there was a sense of dissapointment; Now, she joined together the last 3 books beautifully.
Loved it all. Thank you, J.K.
p.s.- Draco’s a bitch.
Whoops, #10 was written with my hubby logged in instead of me.
He hasn’t read any of the books, but I convinced him he must read the final book and he’s started with number 6 since we just saw the fifth movie.
i loved the book, particularly bec. jk stayed away from the unnecessary descriptions like in book 6 (which i absolutely hated, except for firenze). the giants, which hagrid tried to appease in the 6th book, did not materialize until the last part. what gives? wanted to learn much more about the ending, though. what harry’s work is, for instance (he’d always wanted to be an auror).
about the married-at-16 thing, i don’t think that’s what happened. maybe he married at 20, and had kids soon afterward. hope the actress who plays ginny will be prettier in the next movie, though.
WARNING: SPOILER ALERT!!!
I’ll start by saying I liked the book a lot. In fact, I loved almost every aspect of it. But I wasn’t completely satisfied.
My biggest beef was that I wanted to see more of Ginny. She didn’t strike me as the type of girl who would just roll over and let “her man” tell her she couldn’t participate. I was all pumped in HBP when Harry and Ginny hooked up, because I’ve always been attracted to strong women and Ginny exemplifies that attraction. But she not only lost her strength in DH, but she barely played a part, at all. Unforgivable, Rowling. You could have spent on Ginny some of the space that was wasted in the preparations for Fleur and Bill’s wedding [*snore*].
Then, I would have liked to “see” more of the battle. While it was great to see some of the characters “come into their own,” I think more could have been done. Having all of the suits of armor join the battle was pretty cool, but I could have used a description of it in action. Also, how do some of the other characters contribute? I wanted to see mild-mannered Arthur Weasley lose it and take control! What were Lupin and Tonks doing when they got killed? How do the death eaters react to the mandrakes? Who is heroic (other than Neville)?
Then there’s the epilogue. I second the poster’s comment who called it a “wet fart.” There was nothing of substance there, other than to see that Harry is finally getting to live a normal life (which we would have assumed, anyway). Why don’t we get to grieve over Fred with the Weasleys? Is Snape exonerated publicly? How do Harry and Ginny finally connect, for good? What happens to the Malfoys? Do all the Death Eaters get rounded up? Who is in charge of that? How does the ministry get built back up? Who is involved in that? What type of careers are the characters going to get into?
So many unanswered questions. It would have been better not to have an epilogue at all.
Related to the last comment about Bonnie Wright (the actress who plays Ginny in the films), I think she’s just about perfect. She’s a very pretty girl with that “girl next door” look about her. That’s how I always pictured Ginny. Maybe she could be a little feistier, but I haven’t seen the 5th film, yet.
So the scary christian hacker who claimed to have infiltrated Scholastic’s computers and told the world Hermione dies (so dont bother buying the book) is now exposed as a pathetic liar who along with his ilk just doesn’t “get” fiction.
Yes, poor Hedwig!
By the way, I don’t think commentary gets better Russell’s post on HP, here.
“Is Snape exonerated publicly?”
I think Snape was exonerated when Harry told Voldemort that Snape was Dumbledore’s man all along. Harry said it in front of everyone in the school.
I loved the book and the ending was good but I would have liked Luna to marry Neville.
The one thought that I keep having is, if Snape hadn’t told Voldemort about the prophecy what would have happened instead? Would it have been the wizarding world against Voldemort instead of “the boy who lived”? It was Snape’s fault Lily died and his duty to help right things afterwards when his loyalty to Voldemort caused the death of the woman he loved. I love Alan Rickman but Snape’s demise was justified for the suffering his big mouth caused.
You’d think that least Snape would’ve thought “hmmm, who do I know that’s got a bun in the oven?” before blabbing to pyschopath he worked for.
I definitely loved the book. there *were* things left out of the epilouge, but i think a few loose ends here and there leave it up for our own interpretations. like harry, ron, and hermione’s occupations. we can think of that on our own, and make our own choices. i loved that Snape was loyal in the end… i kind of expected it, but to be honest, never thought of a connection between him and Lily after what Harry saw in the penseive in the 6th book. i did however, wonder who Teddy Tonks was living with… it mentioned he was over to dinner at the Potters’ 4 days a week, but never where he actually called home.I was kind of glad we didnt spend a whole chapter on greif for Fred and Tonks and Lupin. it was okay to skip that part and go to real life 19 years later. the silver doe was brilliant. having Ron lose faith in Harry added complexity to his character i thought. Dobby was *indescribably* sad. and what hit me really hard was Hagrid’s reaction to Harry’s “death”. overall i definitely think it was the best book, and it doesnt leave me wanting more. of course it’s sad that i’ll never pick up a brand new harry potter book and read it with the same enchantment and enthrallment that i have in the past, but all in all i am happy. Rowling is a *genius*.
Oh my gosh! I just finished the last book last night! I couldn’t put it down, deff the best out of all of them! I loved when Harry was almost dead with Albus at King’s Cross and the final fighting scene between Voldy and Harry was AMAZING!!!! It gave me chills! However, JK Rowling didn’t answer all of my burning questions I hope would be answered in this final insallment. 1. What is the Viel? Are people really dead or is it just another world? 2. What is the deal behind Harry’s/Lily’s green eyes..I thought that was a key element in HP’s secrets. 3. What did James and Lily Potter do? 4. What were Harry’s, Ginny, Ron and Hermonie’s occupations when they grew up? 5. What happened to Luna 6. Was crookshanks and Nevilles frog just pets or something more? Anyways….I wish she answered these questions. I am sooooo happy that Ron and Hermonie FINALLY got together…but right when Hogwarts was under attack….please….that is sooo like them. JKR, you are an effing genius!
Oh and if Harry is the god parent of Teddy…shouldn’t of he had lived with Harry??
Do you all feel another series coming on about the kids??? Maybe all the epilouge thinngs will be answered. You have to admit, JKR is a sneaky writer. I’m sensing something….
i did however, wonder who Teddy Tonks was living withÃ¢â‚¬Â¦ it mentioned he was over to dinner at the PottersÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ 4 days a week, but never where he actually called home…
With the Dursleys, of course! Harry turned out alright that way, didn’t he? Wouldn’t the name be Teddy Lupin, though? Sounds eerily familiar to a creepy 80′s toy that talked…
LOVED the book. I was a little unsatisfied with how fairy-tale perfect the epilogue made it appear, however. One of my burning questions: What happened to Dolores Umbridge?!? Did she come to the Battle of Hogwarts? I wanted to see her die a painful death, I must admit.
P.S. The house elves did their thing in book 7
I LOVED this book!! It was amazing. Loved why Sanpe was still good(because he loved Lily Potter). Poor Collin Creevy…poor Dobby!!!! Loved Kreacher…felt bad for him when they left to go to the Ministry and could not return(he was making them pie and he didn’t even know they wouldn’t be back). Really enjoyed how Harry had to willingly sacrifice himself to go on living.
Also couldn’t believe that Dudley thanked Harry!
3. What did James and Lily Potter do?
Why is everybody so hellbent on knowing things like this? You’re not the first person to make this complaint, so I’m not singling you out or anything, but all I can think of when I read such complaints is “Who cares?” Does it really matter to the story what his parents did for a living while they were alive?
I sobbed through the last 3 chapters, but it was amazing!
I thought Teddy would just continue to live with Tonk’s mother. When Lupin left Tonks he said she was staying at her mothers so I just assumed Teddy would stay there after Lupin and Tonks died.
That makes sense Wendy. and i meant Teddy Lupin. my bad. lol
I was shocked about snape. I don’t think that Rowling went into enough detail about him. I thnk that everyone but Harry still hated him for killing Dumbledore. I don’t think she even mentioned that his portrait was on the wall in Dumbledore’s office after he died. I would have liked more information on Snape.
I never doubted Snape’s loyalty. JKR did a good job of keeping people guessing, though. She should have mentioned his portrait in Dumbledore’s office.
Why does voldemort-the best at Legilimens cannot find Narcissa lying that Harry is dead???
What happened to the Ministry?Hogwarts Head master?
Now who has taken the job as Defence against the Dark Arts???
Still Askaban and Dementors exist for the remaining Death Eaters??
What was beyond the Veil???What Dudley felt when he was demented by Dementors in OOTP???
I dont understand one thing in Prizoner of Askaban, if Harry doesnt have a wand (and he is not good at non-verbal Spells in HBP) how did he blow up his Aunt Marge???
The Trace-Protection given by Lily to Harry stops when Harry turns 17.
But how did Dumbledore tell him that he can go back from King Cross because the protection is still in his blood?
I can’t believe people didn’t like the epilogue! I thought it was perfect. Just enough to allow to you let it all go, not enough to explain every last thing, so your imagination can fill in the rest. I had to re-read it immediately. I’m so glad he now has a family he loves…
The Book is good & keeps a fast pace… and the deaths of Dobby & Fred were a bit hard to get through !
Someone, i always knew that Snape would be a tragic hero & Old Voldy would go Mouldy….
but wht abt those questions to be answered ….
JKR has said “There is a character who does manage, in desperate circumstances, to do magic quite late in life, but that is very rare…” WHO WAS IT ?
The fact that Harry “has his mother’s eyes” will prove to be an important plot point. HOW ?
We will learn the exact reason why some people become ghosts when they die and others do not. WHAT WAS IT ?
The epilogue is awesome! for those who hate it they are just not true fans. the whole chapter has so many little clues about their lives that you can pick up more and more when you reread. People are saying a new story line with albus. WTF it suggest that harry is going to pass on the cloak to him. How Ron’s kid is wearing new robes, they are not poor anymore. How percy was at the station he and penelope must of had a kid. How Ron had to learn to drive “they must live in the muggle world”. the list goes on and on and on and on and on and on. Please reread the eplogue before makeing such a harsh judgment of cliche ending. it was well written.
And to answer to why the eyes of harry are important. it reminds him of her so that he will never sway from his mission
i agree with the earlier comment that the epilogue was too tidy – i mean, there was no need to say his scar hadnt hurt in 19 years, a bit much. no room for hope! but it was an amaaazing, exhilirating book. the sword i guess is only for true griffindors in their time of need since the goblin had already stolen it!..? and the baby was kind of weird, i admit. but a great book, ended nicely. i wonder what happened to the dursleys? and poor tonks and lupin. but whyyyy fred!? what will happen to their shop and poor george? and poor, poor dobby. plus, what ever did they become professionally, okay they all end up together (except for luna and neville, which i was expecting), but what did ron, hermione, and harry end up becomming? It is sad that there wont be more writing on the amazing world of magic coming soon..but who knows.
for those who wanted some more on the occupations of harry ron and hermione, etc check out this link (an interview with jkr): http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323/
Oh thank you so much ‘justafan’
the interview of JKR was appeasing
Lets wait for Harry Potter Encyclopedia
Okay, so I just finished it.
I’ll never forgive Harry for winding up with Ginny instead of Luna. Luna at least had a personality. Ginny had none at all.
Otherwise, a good book. Except that part about the Elder wand being Draco’s and then Harry is its master because he stole Draco’s other wand or whatever. That seemed a bit contrived.
I understand people thinking Luna is endearing and quirky, but Ivan, I think you’ve gone too far. That girl’s psycho nuts.
My favorite part, in retrospect: the guy from Slitherin insisting that his house’s contributions to the fall of Voldemort be duly noted.
I really don’t understand all the hatin’ on Ginny. Of course Harry’d want to marry her: she’s brave, she’s smart, she’s steady, she loves Quidditch, and marrying her allows Harry to be part of the Weasley family.
btw, Wikipedia says that Rowling has clarified a number of points in addition to her epilogue:
* Harry and Ron now work as Aurors for the newly revolutionized Ministry of Magic; Harry is the Department Head.
* Hermione works and “is very high up” in the Department of Magical Law Enforcement.
* Luna Lovegood now travels the world as the magical equivalent of a naturalist, tracking down and discovering new magical creatures.
* There is a “completely new” headmaster at Hogwarts after the nineteen-year period, as well as a new Defence Against the Dark Arts professor, whose job is now “as safe as the other teaching posts at Hogwarts.”
* Although she said “no” at first, Rowling said she started feeling a “bit of a pull” toward a Neville/Luna relationship. However, this was left unanswered intentionally because it felt “too neat.”
* Rowling did not say whether or not the trio returned to complete their seventh and final year at Hogwarts, but she says she can see Harry turning up every now and then to give the “odd talk” for Defense Against the Dark Arts.
* She said that she may publish a Harry Potter encyclopedia .
Overall I thought the book was really good. Dobby’s death was probably the saddest for me only because of the amount of respect he as given by Harry as well as his loyalty to Harry. And poor Hedwig! I did find the “baby” scene quite strange and I wish JKR had expanded on that a bit more. I imagine that was the piece of Voldemort’s soul that lived in Harry but there could have been more explanation there as to why it was a baby. I did find it interesting that he was at King’s Cross during this scene though. I liked the epilogue even though the details were a bit sketchy. I think now it’s left open to interpretation. However, one of the things that I am curious about is whether or not Harry eventually dies of natural causes leaving the Elder wand with no power or could someone find out about it and come after him for it? Could this become a sequel involving Albus Severus? Hmmm…..
I think the deaths were necessary to make us as readers know that this was a serious war. No kid stuff anymore. The loose end I was burning to know was who would do magic late in life under desparate circumstances. J.K. mentioned that herself, but, unless I missed it, I didn’t see anyone do magic who couldn’t in previous books. I loved the glimpses into Snape’s past with Lily (and Petunia). I had a feeling Snape was on the up-and-up but I didn’t see WHY coming at all. The Aberforth stuff surprised me. Was it mentioned that he owned the Hog’s Head Inn before?
I thought book was so good!!!! =^.^=
It was so beatifully written especially when Harry found out that snape was good and that he was the one who had to die to save the world!
Dobby huh tear!!!
Just so you know shes making an encyclopedia so all of your little questions that you keep whining about will be finally answered!
Hey does anyone know the answer to my question?…Jk rowling said that in the third movie something forshowed something that would be in the 6th and 7th book…anyone know what that is?????
The baby in the King’s Cross scene immediately made me think of the graveyard scene in Goblet of Fire, right before Voldemort is able to regenerate his body. In that scene, he is also described as looking like a baby.
Several people asked how Harry having his mother’s eyes is relevant. I believe it all comes down to Snape’s last words; “Look… at… me”.
The last thing he wanted to do, was look in Lily’s eyes. I thought it was beautiful.
my take on the baby in kings cross was that voldemort had torn his soul so much in makeing the horcrux’s that it was left like an infant, helpless.
Ahhh, wow, I cant believe its all over! I do hope JKR publishes an encyclopedia or something of that sort that has background info on characters and other stuff that wasnt mentioned in the books cause I bet its fascinating
Aww, I hate that Fred died though…And what will George do without him? He wont have a twin or someone to pull pranks with anymore…I guess that just proves that war can take even the strongest and most humorous people.This is all very sad
To answer number 55′s question, I think Rowling is referring to Harry saving Peter’s life. In the seventh book it is Wormtail’s debt to Harry that aids in their escape from the Malfoy’s.
To 57, i think that take on what Severus said was very intellectual, *i* had certainly never thought of that being the reason the green eyes were relevent, but i love that thought. that *is* beautiful.. wow. =( i miss snape. i never got a chance to like him… but i think thats the point.. neither did Harry. And my idea about the baby in King’s Cross is that that is the peice of Voldemort’s soul that resided in Harry, and when Harry was “killed”, that peice was shoved out, so to speak. i know other people have said this as well, but im just saying i agree. that just meant that that peice of his soul was no longer a part of Harry, he was no longer a Horcrux. thats my thought anyway.
i loved it! sooo glad i didnt read any spoilers. must admit i cried a couple of times. the only thing im curious to see is how everyone looks all grown up. guess i have to wait for the movie.
Poor Severus! Why didn’t he try to defend himself. He was a very highly skilled wizard. Did he have to die for some reason?
But why is that the best legilimens Voldemort did not guess that Narcissa was lying about Harry Death???
I think the reason why harry’s eyes were so important is because it reminded snape that it wasn not just james’s child, who he hated, but it was also Lily’s child who he loved…thats what kept reminding him why he was protecting harry in the 1st place… he loved Lily, it was for Lily’s sake
I finally finished last night. Now that I know how it all ends up, I have to go back and re-read the books again.
I’m sure there are dozens of “problems” with the plot, but it’s still amazing how she put it all together.
I agree with the comment that there seemed to be a LOT of deux ex machina scenes in the book. But I guess it should be that way since all the other books pretty much ended with similiar miraculous recues.
I’m glad to have my life back now that I’ve read the book!
Maybe Narcissa is an occlumens, like Snape.
By the way, I think Snape got what he deserved. If he was in love with Harry’s mother, he should have treated her son better (even if he looked like James). It’s pretty sad that he lived 20+ years after “graduation,” all the time still hung up on all the silly slights he received in his teens. Lame.
Oh yeah, and I agree with # 55 and 65. Snape’s last words meant that he wanted to look into “Lilly’s” eyes, as he died. I thought it was obvious…why would he have wanted to look at Harry?
As for the deaths of Fred and Dobby, I don’t really feel bad. Death, in the Potter series, isn’t something to be afraid of. As Dumbledore put it in book 1, “To the organized mind, death is but the next great adventure.” The people I feel bad for are those left trying to get by without their loved one(s), like the Weasleys (particularly George).
I’m still pretty “peeved” that Ginny didn’t play a larger role in the final series. I was hoping to see some of her power. That’s my biggest complaint. Oh well, you can’t always have it your way. On the other hand, I’m a decent writer, so maybe I’ll write a piece of fan fiction where Ginny chews Harry a new arse for leaving her in the dark about so much, and for going off to die without talking to her, first. I can’t imagine she’d be pleased.
I finally finished so I can join in the discussion!
I have to agree with those who said Ginny’s character seemed a tad uncharacteristic. The other thing that bugged me a tad were characters just showing up and saying they’ve done important things. (She’d done this in prior books as well)
Over all very good although the first 1/3 wasn’t as good as the final 2/3.
I’ll dispute the “back from the dead” bit. I think lots came back from the dead – just not in a resurrected fashion.
Clark, ’bout time you showed up! Like you, I felt that there was a bit of lazy exposition rather than showing us what these characters were doing. Kingsley, for example, was mishandled, as was Ginny etc. The final showdown with He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named (JKR must be SO happy not to have to type that one anymore!) was satisfying, though.
I agree with Supergenius about the finaly showdown. That was “wicked!”
I, too noticed the “lazy exposition,” like when all of a sudden Hermione and Ron told Harry they’d taken all the Basilisk fangs and destroyed the Hufflepuff cup with one. I thought, “how convenient for the movement of the storyline.” I guess she didn’t want to slow down the climax that much, but then why get right into it, so fast?
On a similar note, did anybody else notice how much easier the tiara was to get their hands on than all the others? The diary was protected by the young Riddle, the ring was cursed, the locket was protected by the lake, the inferi, and the potion, the cup was in Gringotts, Nagini had fangs (and was usually near Voldemort), but the tiara was just put in the room of requirement. Now, I know Voldemort (sharp intakes of breath) thought that nobody else had found the room, but considering all the other things that had been hidden in it, that seems unlikely. In addition, wouldn’t he have found out that Malfoy let the death eaters in via that room? I guess I’m getting too nit picky, but I like a smooth plot line.
Also, regarding the horcruxes, why was the locket the only one to try to “fight back” (when Ron went to kill it, it started portraying and exaggerating his insecurities). None of the others acted that way, when being destroyed, sans the diary, perhaps.
Yeah, I really found the whole tiara bit unsatisfying. She attempted to make up for it via the whole Draco fight. One had the feeling though she was reaching. Like someone else noted it seemed like dubious hiding place.
Yeah, if there’s anything to be learned from the last two books, it’s to make your horcruxes out of seemingly unimportant objects. Nobody will know to dig through an entire landfill to find the empty sour cream container in which I have hidden a piece of my soul. And since it’s made of plastic, it won’t biodegrade for thousands of years. Genius!
yea- lord of the rings, anyone?? locket as a burden around your neck, dragging you down, making you think evil… how the fellowship parted, just as harry and ron and hermione had to go their own way…
but i agree that snape bit is beautiful – i loved how his patronus was a doe! although, how come nobody else’s morphs into who they love?
very neatly rapped up, as i stated earlier… i cant wait for the encyclopedia! thanks for posting about their jobs, that was something i really wanted to know.
oh also a few people ive heard complaining that harry should have died cuz it wasnt realistic him coming back from the dead, etc… but come on, he’d been through so much! sheesh, besides, those people didnt get the whole deathly hallows thing – he had already become master of death – he had the invisibility cloak, the stone, and the elder wand had already chosen him…not to mention, he had accepted death, so it was for him to choose whether to go back or not, which is why he was able to choose to go back and finish voldemort. later he gives up two of the hallows.
this is probally really dumb to say but since Dumbledoor told snape to kill him, he chose death right…couldn’t he come back or no?????????
Also, I remember Jk rowling said a person that couldn’t do magic will do magic under pressure…that never happened ….also she said Aunt Petunia had more than meets the eye too… where was that???….also what about her howler from Dumbledoor
Bloomsbury is hosting a live internet chat with J.K. Rowling that will take place from 2:00 – 3:00PM BST on Monday, July 30th.
For Americans planning on tuning in, that’s 9am EST, 8am CST, 7am MST, and 6am PST. You can submit your question to Jo for consideration
This might help to get answers
I don’t see how choosing death has anything to do with it Tammy. Harry was a special situation because he was in an odd relationship with V.
Rodney, I agree about where to hide things. However in the prior book didn’t they say it had to be something significant to the person splitting their soul? (I can’t remember for sure, but I think that’s the case)
Yeah, Harry got to come back because of his ties to Voldemort- his blood flowing through V’s veins- and that little piece of soul thing.
So that shredded creature under the chair while Harry talked to Dumbledore beyond the veil was Tom Riddle, right?
in respsonse to sas’s question why no one elses patronus turned into who they love, it does, in HBP it states that Tonks’s patronus changes to a big 4 legged creature that we can assume is Lupin
By the way, the sword Neville had at the end to kill the snake. Was it supposed to be significant? Was there some deleted subplot with him getting the Gryffindor sword from the goblin? Something felt very unfinished there…
thanks, voltaman, i had forgotten that!
in response to clark’s question, i think that the sword is probably enchanted so that it will come to true griffindors in their time of need (it came for harry from the sorting hat in chamber of secrets too)… and the goblin said that the wizards didnt share with them all their magical knowledge
also, rodney (71) i think u should totally submit your question to the live chat – why the locket was the only horcrux that “fought back”…
Did anyone see the Dateline interview with jk rowling yesturday?
SAS, the problem was the Rowlings really didn’t explain the sword at all. This is something the editor should have picked up on. I can handle Rowlings tendency to have other character off having adventures crucial for the plot, only to summarize them in a paragraph or two. I don’t like it but I can handle it. But this just seemed like sloppy writing.
I took that as a callback to Book 2, in which Harry was able to pull the Sword of Godric Griffendor from the Sorting Hat and Dumbledore explained to him that only a true Griffendor in a time of great need could have pulled the sword out of the hat (or something like that).
Ah. Good call Greg. Although I still think an editor should have brought up this issue and required at least a sentence or two of explanation.
Here’s a question for all. A lot of people are questioning the morality of the book. From AML, a mailing list I frequent.
Most of the adults that Harry cares about, as well as Harry himself,
basically get a shrug and a pat on the back from the author when it comes to
any kind of accountability for the wrong things they’ve done.
I’m preparing a response, because I’m not sure I can buy this. Certainly some are like this. (Such as his Aunt and Uncle) But it’s a little silly IMO to expect every character to get their comeuppance at the end of a series.
The one thing that bothers me a little is that there is no real explanation of why it’s okay for some people to use the “unforgivable” curses (MacGonagall and Harry using the Imperius Curse; Harry using the Cruciacius Curse) and it’s not okay for others (none of the Phoenix uses the Avada Kedavra Curse). I thought there was supposed to be some sort of taboo against using any of the so-called “unforgivable curses.” On the other hand, I would think it would be okay to use a death curse when the Death Eaters are attacking; why not be able to counter a deadly threat in kind?
I just thought it didn’t make that much sense.
To a degree I agree Greg. Some of the dark magic stuff was pretty inconsistent. However there was a scene in the current book where I think someone (Lupin?) was suggesting torturing someone for information and Harry says not to because Dumbledore wouldn’t have. So it appears more a personal aesthetic/ethical decision.
Another question that has not been asked or answered here is this. Apparently no one except perhaps Dumbledoore knew that Harry was one of the seven horcruxes. Yet in the end, after destroying the diary (1), the ring (2), the locket (3), the and the diadem (4), Harry (and Ron and Hermione) all seemed to assume that only two others remained (Nagini and Voldemort himself). No one said, what about the seventh horcrux? shouldn’t we find it first before attacking Voldemort? There was some speculation that Voldemort could not split his soul again, but it was never conclusive. If they could safely kill dumbledore then later go after the horcruxes (as Harry was prepared to do with the snake), then why not take out Volemeort firs tto ensure that he doesn’t make new horcruxes before all are destroyed?
I think the “unforgivable” curses were unforgivable under the law. Since Voldy overthrew the Ministry of Magic, he overthrew that law as well. And maybe all’s fair in war anyway.
The sword of Gryffindor was definitely a call back to Book 2, but I think it was badly handled. There was no explanation of why the “true Gryfindor in need” magic would overcome the goblin’s right to possession of the sword.
I think the locket was the only horcrux to “fight back” because it was the only one they kept for a long time. The others didn’t have time to get to know anyone.
I don’t think they could “take out” Voldemort as long as there were any horcruxes left. Voldemort “died” along with Harry the first time Harry “died” (that baby-creature-thing in the “train station” was Voldemort’s soul), but he came right back because of the snake horcrux.
John, I think you forgot the cup. Harry was apparently an unknown eighth horcrux. Voldemort intended to create only seven. Harry wasn’t quite the same type of horcrux because that soul fragment separated unintentionally (no spell involved) Dumbledore may have known of the eighth but not mentioned it to Harry so he would only find out at the end.
Did anyone glean any meaning or significance to Dumbledore’s saying he saw “a pair of clean wool socks” in the mirror? (something like that)
“Did anyone glean any meaning or significance to DumbledoreÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s saying he saw Ã¢â‚¬Å“a pair of clean wool socksÃ¢â‚¬Â in the mirror? (something like that)”
When Dumbledore first said it (in Book 3, I think), we all assumed it meant that Dumbledore was happy and contented, so there was not much more he could want from life. In DH, it was strongly implied that this answer was untruthful and evasive, and that his true answer would mean something else, like having his sister back, along with the rest of Dumbledore’s family.
Lost of more explicit answers here, including this bit about Neville and Godric’s sword:
Su: How did neville get the gryfindor sword, is there a link to the hat
J.K. Rowling: Yes, there is very definitely a link to the hat!
J.K. Rowling: Neville, most worthy Gryffindor, asked for help just as Harry did in the Chamber of secrets, and Gryffindor’s sword was transported into Gryffindor’s old hat -
J.K. Rowling: – the Sorting Hat was Gryffindor’s initially, as you know.
J.K. Rowling: Griphook was wrong – Gryffindor did not ‘steal’ the sword, not unless you are a goblin fanatic and believe that all goblin-made objects really belong to the maker.
Also, this about what Dumbledore truly saw in the Mirror of Erised: “He saw his family alive, whole and happy – Ariana, Percival and Kendra all returned to him, and Aberforth reconciled to him.”
Yeah, that answer makes sense Greg, but it was still poorly written.
I noticed no one commented on the ethics of JKR’s books. I think that while I agree up to a point (what happened to all the Death Eaters, for example) overall I disagree. Consider Snape, who is whom most people discuss in this context. (Consider the long discussion at Russell’s blog for instance) Yes in one way Snape is a limited character who is mainly caught up in his love of Lily. But does he deserve worse? Consider what he sacrifices for Harry, whom he doesn’t like at all. Consider his obedience to Dumbledore. Does he really deserver worse? Does he feel bad about once being a Death Eater?
Now certainly there are the other Death Eaters but while we see Draco 19 years later we don’t know what’s transpired in the meantime. So I find it a bit much to judge.
Wow…lots to catch up on.
#81 & 82, sas & Clark: Sorry, fellas, but I disagree about the sword of Griffindor. I was glad that Rowling didn’t explain it. Maybe that was because I knew, immediately, where Neville had gotten the sword. You basically needed to be a “true” Griffindor to be able to pull it out of the hat (which had also belonged to Godric Griffindor). It would have been a less powerful statement about the hidden hero within Neville if she had to explain why he was able to pull the sword from the hat.
Then, yeah, Harry was the 7th horcrux, containing Voldemort’s 8th piece of soul (including the one inside himself). In HBP, Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort had split his soul into 7 pieces, not that he had created 7 horcruxes. It went without saying, I guess, that the last piece still remained within Voldemort.
#78, by Clark: I don’t remember the article having to be significant. I thought it was just a part of Voldemort’s arrogance that made him want it that way. I could be wrong, though.
#80, by Voltaman: I agree about the patronuses changing to something that represents love. Also, keep in mind Harry’s dad’s was a stag and Harry’s mom was a doe.
#83, by sas: I wish I had been a part of that. I read the transcript, though. It was very satisfying to get that info, since the book sorely lacked it (though I’m beginning to understand why she left it all out…where do you stop?)
#87, by Clark: Boy, did you take a big bite to chew, there! Many Christians have long held that the morality in the Harry Potter series is seriously lacking. They’ve got problems with the youngsters’ flouting of authority and all kinds of other things. And not to take their side, but there does seem to be a rather large amount of “forgiveness” for the “good guys” who do bad things, in the series. However, I think it is well balanced with introspection. By that, I mean there is always someone (like Dumbledore, Lupin, or even Harry, himself) who talks or thinks about how what the person is not doing the right thing. For instance, Rowling doesn’t say it’s okay for Sirius to be so reckless. In fact, it is brought up a number of times as a flaw in his personality. Now, if the question is “should Sirius be openly punished or criticized for it?”, I say no. As in real life, people often appear to “get away” with doing the wrong thing, even though they may pay for it in more subtle respects, like broken or strained relationships or a heavy conscience (or, like Dumbledore, have a misleading and speculative “biography” written about you, posthumously). Sorry to write a book on the subject, but maybe you can use some of those ideas in your response, Clark.
#88, by BTD Greg: Another big can of worms. In book 4, Moony explains that the “Unforgivable Curses” are so named by the Ministry and are punishable by a trip to Azkaban. Now, of course, they do seem to be particularly nasty bits of magic. It is arguable, though, that there are other, “legal” kinds of magic that can do just as much or almost as much harm (and even can be lethal, in certain situations), and yet the Ministry allows them. I think Rowling would say that it is really up to the user’s discretion and conscience. I wouldn’t say that “nobody in the Phoenix” uses the Avada Kedavra curse, because in the final showdown, Mrs. Weasley is “aiming to kill” Bellatrix Lestrange, and, presumably, does so. Also, in the second chapter (I think), Lupin tells Harry off for trying to disarm Stan Shunpike, because he needs to be more aggressive. I can’t remember if they actually discuss using unforgivable curses, but it seemed implied, to me (sorry to be vague, but I already mailed my book to my brother, to read, so I can’t look back to verify). My larger point is that the “good guys” can use them, too, though they seem to less frequently and less enthusiastically (which is what makes them the “good guys,” I guess). (I now see that kuri touched on the legality of it in # 91, too.)
#91, by kuri: I don’t really like that explanation of why the locket fought back. They had the Hufflepuff cup for some time, though not nearly as long. Also, there was no explanation about a horcrux needing time to get to know its enemy, so it seems like a very “reaching” explanation.
Lastly, I can’t find the number, but someone questioned the wool socks Dumbledore claimed to have seen in the mirror, in book # 1. I don’t have that book, either, to double check (lent to yet another brother, damn them), but I believe Harry thought to himself that he believed Dumbledore to be misleading with his answer of wool socks, and I think this is a direct quote, if I remember correctly, “but, after all, it had been a very personal question.”
Sorry about the huge post, guys. I get a little overzealous (I got my undergrad in English Writing).
#90, by John: The whole point was that you couldn’t kill Voldemort without taking out his Horcruxes. If you killed him, he would be able to come back as long as there was one piece of his soul remaining on the earth. So, according to Hary’s plan, when Voldemort killed Harry, there would only be two pieces of soul left to kill: Nagini and Voldemort. They would have to kill Nagini, first. Plus, you’re forgetting that nobody was “attacking Voldemort.” If Harry didn’t turn himself in, Voldemort was going to kill everybody who stood in between himself and Harry (meaning everybody fighting at Hogwarts), and Harry couldn’t allow that.
A couple of things occur to me as I read this thread.
-It seems I am the last person on earth to finish HP 7.
-Who are all these closet KB readers?
-It seems people feel there wasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t enough of an epilogue? The first thing that I thought upon finishing was that the epilogue was absolutely silly. Probably just a way to keep young fans from complaining about an Ã¢â‚¬Å“unfinished endingÃ¢â‚¬Â if it had ended with the last chapter, as it should have.
IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m uncertain as to the bookÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s ethics. Utilitarianism seems to be a recurring idea, but IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not sure what the series would have us believe about it. The phrase Ã¢â‚¬Å“for the greater goodÃ¢â‚¬Â is repeated frequently, sometimes positively, often contemptuously. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d have to go back and read more carefully to come to a better conclusion, but my initial impression is that Ã¢â‚¬Å“the greater goodÃ¢â‚¬Â is as good as the motives of the one desiring it.
Eric, don’t be so cynical? KB is big time. You were just lucky enough to know us all from back in the day.
I thought the epilogue wasn’t silly at all, it showed how life went on for Harry and that all the evil in the world was gone and he could finally be normal!!!
Like it says in the book…
“The scar has not pained Harry in nineteen years. All was well.”
I loved the book, including the epilogue. I was a little confused about hte whole master of the elder wand thing, and how the wand actually belonged to Draco. Why? He didn’t go through with killing Dumbledore, so how was he the new master? What did I miss?
I’m so sad that it’s over.
If Dumbledore had the elder wand why couldn’t he handle Voldemort when they fought in the ministry of magic in book 5?
I had to go back to Book 6 for that: at the very end, before Snape kills Dumbledore, Draco disarms him, causing the wand to fly out of his hand (I actually just glanced at it quickly before I left for work a week ago, and I don’t have it here, so I may be wrong on some detail, but that’s essentially what happened). In Book 7, we find out that Dumbledore learned that he didn’t have to kill the previous owner of the elder wand, you just had to, what, deprive the previous owner of the wand? So I think that’s where Draco got possession.
T, Dumbledore handled Voldemort fine, he just couldn’t kill him yet because of the horcruxes still at large.
Draco became the master of the Elder wand by disarming Dumbledore just like Harry became master of Draco’s wand by taking it from him. Apparently you don’t have to kill the previous owner, you just have to win the wand from them. So Hermione would have been the master of the Snatcher’s wand that wouldn’t work right for Harry.
I think actually wearing the locket for hours at a time, having it touching their skin and so on, all while in an emotionally vulnerable state, is what made the difference. They weren’t actively communing with it the way Ginny did with the diary, but they kept in much closer proximity than any of the other horcruxes.
The Elder Wand may have been unbeatable, but the wizard wielding it wasn’t necessarily so. Draco defeated Dumbledore because Dumbledore was using the wand to freeze Harry rather than to protect himself. And Dumbledore somehow defeated Grindelwald in a straight-up duel.
The Elder Wand is unbeatable in a duel. I think Dumbledore was able to defeat Grindelwald because Grindelwald stole the wand from Gregorovitch, and didn’t forcibly take it from him.
the reason Dumbledoor didn’t kill Voldy is because harry had to kill him beu=cause he was a horcrux too
But, then Dumbledore wouldn’t have been master of the elder wand either, considering that he beat grindelwald, but not gregorovitch. If gregorovitch was the true owner, dumbledore would have had to defeat him in order to become master of the elder wand, just like Voldemort had to defeat Draco, and not Dumbledore, and DD never did beat Gregorovitch.
Oh, and if I’m not mistaken, the whole sword having to be retrieved by a gryffindor in a moment of great need, and through great bravery WAS actually touched upon in one of the memories that Snape gave to Harry.
I really really miss Fred. I miss him sooooo much! How could he die!? I mean there was a bang, Harry flew through the air and fred was dead! What happened???? Did Bellatrix kill him? I felt sick with disbelief, even though he’s a fictional character. I just couldn’t understand that he was actually gone and it was hard to accept because it wasn’t clear to me how he died. Now George is ALONE? That doesn’t work they’re a pair!
I had waves upon waves of shivers when Mrs Weasley was fighting Bellatrix for Ginny. It brought tears to my eyes. That was a really good, emotional part. The emotions being fury and maternal love.
One thing only i don’t understand… i counted 8 pieces of voldemort’s soul at the end, not seven. The diary, ring, locket, cup, diadem, snake, harry, and voldemort himself. So Voldemort split his soul into 8, not 7 right? Or I guess the final 8th one was done unintentionally and unkowingly, ah. Heh I figure it out as I type..
He split it into seven himself and his attack on Harry produced an unknown eighth.
HI EVERY ONE,
i m participating for the first time for an iron clad reason.Could ANYONE of u answer my following questions with SOLID ANSWERS because I dont want to dislike any aspect of JO’s work bcoz it was undoubtedely incredible piece of literature.
In light of my opinion the whole plot in part 3 n part 4 was just stupid,my questions are:
In POA when sirius could buy a firebolt with crookshank’s help ,could not he get a quill n parchement from some where so that he could write n tell all the details to dumbledore directly.DD would’ve definitelely considered that with plenty of time n could also check in person RON’S rat,could not he, as he is well known for giving second chances.if siriu s was sensible enough that he did not go mad in azkaban,he could also have reavealed the true identity of wormtail by several other methods n could’ve earned himself freedom n respect among wizarding community.In that case there’ll be no need for revealing himself[by breakning into hogwarts] or alert wormtail that sirius is after him?story would be much shorter n harry should be punished for blowing up his aunt nstory would be totally different with much more commen sense.WOULD NOT IT?
QUESTON 2:same is the case with GOF in which vodemort precisely wanted harry so that he could regain his body by using his blood this could’ve definitely be done without entering him into tournament.he could be trnsported to voldemort alone or along with barty junior either by apparation during hogsmeade visit or by portkey(that could be any thing turned into portkey by fake moody himself as he did in third task,not necessarily the triwizard cup)
eagerly waiting for some SOLID answers to justify the above loop holes.
Y’know, fantasy or science fiction requires a certain amount of deliberate suspension of disbelief on the reader’s part. That said, yeah, the triwizard cup being the portkey always bothered me also. Dumb plan, ‘though it worked in the end, so you can’t argue with success, now can you?
well i m not satisfied yet
Yeah they are called ‘plot holes’. But these are such well done stories that you hardly notice any inconsistencies like that unless you really over-analyze the story.
it would be a pretty dumb story if it was that easy
The discussion seems to be winding down here, but I just finished DH and am eager to talk about it. Many people made good points above. I was just thinking about the parallels between Harry and Snape. Both of them willingly accepted death. They were more similar than either of them realized.
Also, people were wondering above about the “baby” at King’s Cross with Harry and Dumbledore. I think that was definitely what remained of Riddle’s soul. By dividing it into pieces and storing it in Horcruxes, and by doing all those evil deeds he did, he turned the remnants of his soul into something repugnant. (Harry was repulsed by it.) When Riddle “killed” Harry, he killed himself. The Elder Wand would not truly kill Harry because he was its true owner. When Harry chooses to go back, right when he comes to in the forest, all the Death Eaters are concerned about Voldemort. I took that to mean that he “killed” Harry and himself, so both went to King’s Cross. When Harry chose to return, Riddle’s “soul” returned too.
Thank you Mark for realizing that when Voldemort used the killing curse on Harry in the forest, it was due to the fact that Harry was master of the Elder Wand at the time that he was not killed and Voldemort’s soul inside him was.
For maria’s questions about 3 and 4, Sirius wanted to kill Pettigrew and nothing short of that, believing that all would be revealed once he had done so. Also, for Voldemort going through all the trouble of making Harry win the Triwizard Tournament, that was because he did not wish to reveal himself to the public at that time (still recruiting and such) so he couldn’t make it appear that obvious.
Now for my question, and this is one that has not come up a single time during this discussion, why is it that wizarding duals are SO INEFFECTIVE? I ask this because I find it very strange that muggle weapons are far more effective than wizards/witches when it comes down to fighting and especially a war such as the final one in DH.(I am referring to the fact that guns shoot bullets at a far greater speed than any spell seems to be cast with people dodging them left and right) Also, when it comes down to 2 wizards/witches dualing, all of the bystanders sit and watch for fear of hitting the wrong one if they try to assist them. But why not just use a spell that would simply contain both and not harm either? Such as a binding spell…this would not harm the “good-guy” but yet they would have the “bad-guy” captured. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed this entire series a great deal and am sad that it is in fact over, but any time I came across a “fight scene” throughout the entire series it, not only confused me a great deal, but it frustrated me at times too.
I think u r right ,it was all about keeping himself in hiding.
Well regarding ur question,I agree with u.any body from even behind could disarm or freeze or can do variety of good repute spells but why dont they do it.WHY?
Thanks, Kevin. That’s a good question about dueling. I have a couple of thoughts. First, I think that magical duels are sort of like muggle boxing matches. Either boxer has the ability to knock the other one out, but each also has the ability to defend themself. Therefore, like boxers, dueling witches and wizards move around, probing their opponent’s strengths and weaknesses. So, I think boxing is a better analogy than gunfights.
As to why guns are more effective at killing than magic, my thought is that guns, like wands, can be carried on one’s person. A wand is a defense against another wand, but nobody’s come up with a good defense for guns that fits on a person. (A full-body bulletproof suit would be too clumsy.)
I don’t know why bystanders don’t intervene in a duel. In the books there are many examples of multiple people dueling. For instance, in the last battle, Bellatrix is dueling Hermione, Ginny, and Luna, while Voldemort is dueling MacGonagall, Slughorn, and Flitwig. I don’t know why other people didn’t join in. It does seem like sheer numbers could help overpower a “bad guy”.
If you follow the boxing analogy, nobody joins in, because it’s those pple duelling, not anyone else, if htat makes sense.
I would have really liked there to be no epilogue at all. Harry, to me, has always been a school kid with a fantastic future and enormous courage. You can’t have Harry without Hogwarts. I would have liked to have the story end with Harry still a seventeen year old kid, to give a sense of…immortality to him. You know, like, yes, we know he does grow up eventualy…but it would have been nice to hear from him last as the Harry we still knew.
Sarah, you could well be right.
Emmaline, I agree with you but for a different reason. Harry is 17, and he’s lost almost all of the important adults in his life: His parents, Sirius, Dumbledore, Lupin, Tonks, and Moody. Hagrid and the Weasleys are the only close adult figures in his life now. That’s got to be hard on any 17 year old. Sure, he’s 36 in the epilogue, but it does just sweep all that death and loss under the rug.
Does this seem strange to anyone?
When Harry was at the Malfoy’s halfway through the book, Lucius asked Draco if he recognized Harry as Harry so that they could call Voldemort. Draco neither confirms nor denies weather it’s him, but Draco has hated him for years. That’s a strong relationship, even if it is negative. Hermione’s little puffy trick made it hard for people to recognize Harry, so it’s no wonder Lucius doesn’t know if it’s him. He hasn’t seen Harry much. But I can’t believe Draco wouldn’t know who he was. Does anyone else think Draco might have been helping Harry like his mother does, later on?
Draco isn’t seen much in Deathly Hallows, but when he is, he’s always jumpy, quiet, afraid. Perhaps he’s beginning to understand the magnitude of Voldemort’s evil? Maybe he wanted Harry to succeed at that point.
Or…maybe I’m completely crazy.
Yeah, the book didn’t completely explain it. My thought is that the Malfoys were so petrified of Voldemort, they didn’t want to be Death Eaters anymore. They were just trying to survive any way they could. I think that Draco probably did recognize Harry, but he was so scared of Voldemort that he didn’t want to confirm that it was Harry, lest Voldemort be summoned to Malfoy Manor. Draco’s fear of Voldemort overpowered his dislike of Harry.
I seem to recall her suggesting that this, or something like this, was going through Draco’s mind. It seems Draco is not only having second thoughts but even in the prior volume it’s not clear he really wants to be as evil as his family desires. He often has second thoughts.
I was actually a bit bored in reading DH, especially when they just sat in the woods, waiting. JKR was a little bit slack in my opinion at this part, but I loved how she tied up a bunch of loose ends. I want to know what that whimpering things was in the after-life. xD
Morgan, the whimpering thing in the King’s Cross after-life was part of Voldemort’s soul.
There’s no doubt Draco recognized Harry, or at least Ron and Hermione. I think Draco was a bully and liked to scare people, but when it came down to actual killing, he just wasn’t hard enough to actually enjoy that kind of real evil. Deep down he didn’t really want to kill anyone; he was simply terrified of Voldemort.
That’s a really good point. I’ve never really thought about Draco that way.
But–why was he so adamant on giving Harry to Voldemort in the final battle when they met in the room of requirement?
Emmaline, I can’t remember exactly, but weren’t Crabbe and Goyle with Draco when he met Harry in the room of requirement? Draco couldn’t exactly chicken out in front of his henchmen, so that’s why I think we was so adamant about giving Harry to Voldemort then.
He still wanted to get back into Voldemort’s “good books”, no? I was wondering if the Malfoys were “redeemed” in the end because they had love. In the final battle scene, Bellatrix, who has been described as just as ruthless as her master, is duelling beside him. But the Malfoys are running through the room looking for their son. It is Narcissa’s love for Draco that allows her to “help” Harry in the forest….
Srah, that’s a good point. One thing I really like about Rowling’s characters is that they are real and nuanced. It might have been easy for her to have written the Malfoys as changing sides and completely coming over to the “good side”. However, that’s not what she does, she makes them ambivalent, still somewhat evil and malicious but not willing to go as far as Voldemort is. As you suggest, Sarah, Narcissa’s love for her son is her redeeming feature.
Phew, I’m through the discussion. =) This is a really good website!
I’m not sure whether the Elder Wand really played a role in the duels between Harry and Voldemort. First, I think DD mentions somewhere that the Hallows aren’t more than a myth and second he couldn’t know that Harry would become its master when he (DD) died, could he? So it cannot be the reason for Harry not dying in the duel. But I don’t quite understand the blood thing. Has Harry been immortal since Voldemort has used his blood? Did DD know this? And why was it so important that Harry chose death on his own choice (I mean in order to kill Voldemort)? Why didn’t DD tell him about him being the 8th horcrux? I’m sorry if I should be asking dumb questions!
Oh and is there any need for Aurors anymore after Voldemort’s death?
Thanx a lot!
Got it through Amazon -Day one. Read it over the next two days. I read the books to my 10 year old son and my girlfriend, using the best voice voice characterizations I can (inspired by the movies – Dumbledore will ALWAYS be Richard Harris, rather than Mike Gambon). My voices got all screwed up by this one though, every time someone died. The lump in my throat would hardly let the words out, let alone the voices.
Loved it all, even the parts I hated (deaths of Hedwig, Fred, Dobby, Colin…)
I was SO SURE Dumbledore’s death had been faked (“you have to mean them” when you cast an unforgiveable curse), but am thankful the story staid true and he remained dead.
My pet theory regarding the books, that didn’t pan out (or at least was never confirmed/revealed), was that Dumbledore used his images on the chocolate frog cards as an information gathering network. That would be why his image disappeared off Harry’s first card in Sorcerer’s Stone (to go tell D that HP made it onto the train and would be arriving soon), and why he said, after being demoted from Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot, etc. in OOTP that he didn’t care what they did, as long as they didn’t take him off the Chocolate Frog cards.
Johanna, good questions! I think that the Elder Wand played a very important role in the duels between Harry and Voldemort. Draco Malfoy disarmed DD before Snape killed DD, so the Elder Wand shifted its allegiance to Draco. Then Harry diarmed Malfoy in DH, so the Elder Wand switched its allegiance to Harry. The Elder Wand wouldn’t kill Harry when Voldemort tried in the forest (it also knocked Voldemort down, as Harry noticed when he came to). Then, when Harry was playing dead, the Elder Wand wouldn’t hurt him when Voldemort used the Cruciatus curse to defile what he thought was Harry’s dead body. Harry was lifted into the air but didn’t feel any pain from the curse because the Elder Wand wouldn’t hurt its true master. I think the blood connection plays a role, but I haven’t quite got that straight in my head yet.
It was important for Harry to choose his own death because that protected the others (Ron, Hermoine, Ginny, Neville, and all the defenders of Hogwarts) from Voldemort, just like Lily’s choosing death protected Harry. But, I don’t know why DD didn’t tell Harry about being the 8th horcrux.
I think there will always be a need for Aurors. There was a need for them before Voldemort, because there were evil wizards (like Grindelwald). There will be evil wizards after Voldemort (but hopefully none as evil as him!), so there will still be a need for Aurors.
I have the answers for the blood part!
The reason Harry was not killed when Voldemort cast the Killing Curse at him, was because Harry had Voldemort’s blood in his veins. He couldn’t die while his other (whose blood was also his) was still alive. (Neither can live while the other survives…) So when Voldemort killed Harry, he only killed his own soul, and left Harry’s whole and purely his.
No, Voldemort had Harry’s blood! I wonder if priori incatatem, or some similar idea was also part of it – after all both were using wands that had been Draco’s and that Harry had then mastered…
Sarah, I think you’re right that Voldemort had Harry’s blood, but Harry didn’t have Voldemort’s blood, which is why I’m having trouble sorting out the blood part. I should re-read Goblet of Fire to help me remember the scene where Voldemort took Harry’s blood.
Harry lived because his blood in Voldemort was still alive. That “tethered” him to life enough to give him the choice whether to “go on” or “go back.”
Right…now, what about the wands? Isn’t it true that the elder wand wouldn’t kill its true master, harry?
Sorry to jump way back here, but in response to 38, I really suspect Voldemort isn’t nearly as good a legilimens as he boasts. Sure, he’s cracked quite a few minds, but just their fear of being near him would’ve helped a lot. I think that if Voldy was such a good legilimens he surely would’ve seen Snape’s treachery, and Narcissa’s lie. My other theory is that Snape is just an awesome occlumens, and Voldemort was so caught up in the joy of the kill he didn’t notice Narcissa’s lie.
39: Harry just felt so much loathing for her it leaked out in a powerful nonverbal, no wand spell.
42: Wizarding souls will stay on this earth if they are too scared to go on, or if they believe they still have something to do on earth. However, I don’t think Voldemort will stay as a ghost just because he’s scared of death; I think his soul’s to weak to stay.
One thing I’ve always been confused about, is what happens to a person with a horcrux once they’ve been killed. Are they a soul without a body, drifting around until they find a way to make a new body? Or is the piece of their soul destroyed with their body, causing them to now be the piece of soul in their horcrux? Also, could a horcrux gain a body even while the original body remains on earth? Like, let’s say hypothetically Ron was posessed by the locket and that piece of Voldemorts soul got a body just like the journal soul fragment almost did in Chamber of Secrets, could there have then been two Voldemorts?
Sorry for the long post.
Another point I’d like to bring up: The intelligence of portraits, and the difference between portraits and pictures. The talking portraits always bugged me. I mean, if there were portraits that acted exactly like the wizards they represented, wouldn’t they be used for information? Couldn’t they continue their jobs from their frame? I wouldn’t put it past them to have a house elf assigned to a portrait so that its subject could roam freely through the wizarding world. It just seems like portraits make wizards seem to immortal. Also, I’ve wondered if pictures can talk. I can’t remember them ever have done so in any of the books. They certainly can hear: In the fifth book Mad-Eye tells the subjects of the Order of the Phoenix picture to move aside. Finally, it doesn’t make sense that the subject of a picture can only be in one of his/her pictures at a time. A famous wizard, let’s say Dumbledore, would have so many pictures to visit, between Chocolate Frog Cards, portraits, book covers, and newspapers, that he’s rarely be seen in his pictures at all.
Sarah, about the wands, see my post #142.
Naxen, you bring up some good points about portraits. It seems to me that pictures and portraits are different. Wizards and witches in pictures don’t really interact with the viewer, although they can hear as you point out. I don’t think the books ever adequately explain exactly how portraits work, so it’s a good question as to how a famous wizard who would be in many portraits could ever be found in a given painting.
In the fifth book, DD makes it seem like there are a limited number of portraits of famous wizards. He says that Dylis can go to “her other portrait” at St. Mungos, making it seem that there are only those two. And Phineas Nigellus only has those two… In fact, there was never another portrait of Dumbledore that was mentioned at all, which would lead me to assume that the figure in his portrait stays put. Now, I wonder, was there a portrait of Snape put up in the headmaster’s office after the final battle?
One thing I wonder: can Harry still speak Parseltongue after the bit of Voldemort’s soul was driven out of him?
No He couldn’t speak parseltongue anymore and he didn’t die and if i understood right, the horcrux in him is what was somehow…i dunno cause remember that thing that was crying/swinging when he was hit by the avada spell? that was what voldemort was when Pettigrew found him and brough him back.
There’s still something more to that than I understand right now.
All my friends are like, he didn’t die, he didn’t die, but he had to of. Dumbledore asked him if he wanted to stay.
Dumbledore also told him that he wasn’t dead
I now get it, Harry really didn’t die! because his true Elder wand wouldn’t, just killed whatever wasn’t Harry, ergo, the part Voldemort left inside him. Then the crutio curse didn’t do anything to him and in the end didn’t kill Harry.
I still don’t get how Harry went to the spirit world and could chat with Dumbledore like he was alive and also why Voldemort was knocked out when he cursed Harry.
It could be that when killing one of his Horcruxes causes pain and damage to Voldemort itself, but if this is true Voldemort should know when a Horcrux is being destroyed.
maybe voldemort was knocked out by the rebound, but couldn’t die because the snake horcrux still existed
one thing,I want to know about is that in OOTP in climax scene harry n friends tried to open a door in circular room(department of mysteries) that did not open n Dumbeldore told Harry in the end that there is the power locked in that room which harry posses in such quantity that Voldemort could not posses him so my questions are:
#1:In HBP Dumbeldore told that it is only LOVE which saved harry then WHAT WAS IT IN THE ROOM OF REQUIREMENT?is there any description or scene about that room in DH?
#2:If Voldemort could not posses him(accord to dumbeldore)then does’nt this statement contradict that Harry already possesed part of voldemorts soul
VERY VERY SORRY IF THESE QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED IN DH BECAUSE I HAVE’NT ACTUALLY READ IT YET,EAGER THOGH I AM BUT IM STILL BUISY IN EXAMS SO ONLY RELYING ON DISSCUSSION N SUMMARIES.
WHAT HAPPENED EVERY ONE?ARE THESE SUCH DIFFICULT QUESTIONS THAT NOBODY KNEW THEIR ANSWERS OR ELSE SUCH FOOLISH THAT NOBODY IS BOTHERED TO DISCUSS THEM?
I CERTAINLEY THINK I’VE GOT A POINT,HAV’NT I?
Maybe your answers lie in the previous comments, since you said you hadn’t read the entire discussion yet.
Furthermore, the discussion is older than most discussions receiving comments, considering the forum is not dedicated to Harry Potter, only the thread is.
No , there are no answers in this discussions to my questions .
SURELY U CAN TELL ME THE BEST N FASTEST SITE FOR DH DISSCUSSIONS.
I’ll answer you maria, if you’ll just stop using friggin caps.
You said “what was in the room of requirement”. I assume you meant what was in the locked room in the department of mysteries. It would have to be either love itself in that room, just like they had time in another room, or at least something to do with the protection that willing sacrifice puts on a person.
Dumbledore said Voldy couldn’t posses Harry, not the other way around. And the only reason Voldemort can’t is because Harry can love. Voldemort actually did posses Harry at the end of the Dumbledore-Voldemort duel in #5, but as soon as Harry started thinking about Sirius, Harry’s love hurt Voldemort and kicked him out.
does anybody know whos wand hermione is using during the battle of hogwarts? is she still using bellatrixs wand? does she keep it?
i loved this book.the writing is excellent. there seems to be many questions surrounding the horcruxes. remember when voldemort tried to kill harry the first time,he had already made five horcruxes( i may be wrong). voldemort was gonna make another horcrux the night he tried to kill harry.voldemort never planned on making seven.their cant be eigth horcuxes. voldemort only killed seven times,therefore only seven horcruxes. harry was the ‘accidental’ horcrux.please correct me if im wrong.
Harry’s fourth summer and the following year at Hogwarts are marked by the Quidditch World Cup and the Triwizard Tournament, in which student representatives from three different wizarding schools compete in a series of increasingly challenging contests.
However, Voldemort’s Death Eaters are gaining strength and even creating the Dark Mark giving evidence that the Dark Lord is ready to rise again. In the unsuspecting lives of the young wizard and witches at Hogwarts the competitors are selected by the goblet of fire, which this year makes a very surprising announcement:
Hogwarts will have two representatives in the tournament, including Harry Potter!
Will Harry be able to rise to the challenge for the Tri Wizard Tournament while keeping up with school or will the challenges along with Voldemort’s rebirth be too much for the young hero?
Hey, supergenious, who runs the show here?
I was thinking over the story today, so I googled “discussion” and the series to read what others had concluded. Its a pretty general agreement, looks like.
I think continuity means a great deal to the authot(not to mention, she knew how how many people would be annoyed if she didnt wrap up correctly).
She didnt want to be pinned down by accepted views, which is why I believe questions of morality are not to be accepted as “lessons” in the books.
The exceptions to this are when you can hear the vehement voice of the author in the books: Lupin’s proposed desertion of Ted and Dumbledore’s sexual orientation. She is prepared to lose fans to back these views, I beleive strongly.
Ginny’s role is kept to a minimum, partly because it would probably be unwelcome to introduce a new slant to the loved trio of Harry, Hermione and Ron. Everyone has, from the beggining of the series, been kept at bay(Sirius, Dumbledore, Luna).
The book is great philosophical fodder!! And it is right to expect children to realize that life is a huge compromise, and the best man is the unselfish man, not the one who is seduced by glory. And that the best of us can falter in that path(like Dumbledore), and must learn to overcome and subdue.
The charecter sketch that surpasses the rest is that of Voldemorts. His charector suffers in the last book because there is a deviation from that charector. It is much less impressive.
The element of surprise and presence of threat is superb, in the last book.
Thank you Joane K Rowling, for a wonderful reading experience that will stay with me for a long time. God Bless.
What? Outside of some interviews she never mentioned Dumbledore’s orientation. There’s nothing in the book to suggest much there except some creepy readings of Dumbledore’s and Voldemort’s relationship. (Which I’m sure she didn’t intend) It’s all pretty vague.
Interestingly she says there may be yet an other Harry Potter book. While I hated most of the movies I loved the book. I’m not sure it’s great philosophical fodder but it is interesting.
I do love the characterizations she makes though. For all the flaws in her treatment of magic and plot issues the root of the books is teenage angst and development. That comes out wonderful as Harry ages.
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