Are You A Snob Or Just Really Cool?
Snob = n : a person who believes himself or herself an expert or connoisseur in a given field and is condescending toward or disdainful of those who hold other opinions or have different tastes regarding this field: a musical snob. Dictionary.com
“If everyone were cool, then being cool would be meaningless.” Supergenius
“What really matters is what you like, not what you’re like.” Rob from High Fidelity
Is anyone here a snob? Are we all cool? Is High Fidelity right that that what we like is what matters?
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Posted on September 11, 2006, in Pop Culture. Bookmark the permalink. 35 Comments.
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Notice that the definition says someone who “believes himself or herself an expert…”
So inherent in snobbism is a certain amount of nagging insecurity. The person who really is a connoisseur has no need to mask this with condescending or disdainful attitudes.
I, of course, am disdainful of everything that’s cool. I’m a snob of the uncool.
Rusty, we’re not all cool. I don’t really consider myself to be ultra-cool, really. But I also don’t think we’re snobs. I think that if you know something about a topic and show it, you need to be careful not to be condescending or disdainful — but that doesn’t mean that we need to give in to commonplace social pablum on what constitutes good music, art, film or design. A little research and a little experience to inform our tastes doesn’t turn us into snobs — it turns us into savvy consumers.
I was actually going to do another post about some bands I’ve been snobby about and have since changed my mind about them. I may talk snobbily occasionally about some bands, but I’m always aware something will probably come along to change my opinion about them.
Susan, you’re actually the least snobbish person I can think of. You’re always highly praising of nearly everybody, the sign of a real music lover.
Agreed D., Susan is super non-snobby.
Maybe that’s why it bothers me so much when I do get snobby about a band.
Is High Fidelity the movie with John Cusack as the record store owner? I thought it was pretty lame, but loved all the music references in it.
But I think what you’re like is more important than what you like.
High Fidelity is the next lame movie to be made into a lamer Broadway musical, following the very lame example of The Wedding Singer. The movies were OK as is: why bother ruining them for a live audience?
I remember talking to someone about my ideas about bluegrass and she told me that I was a “festival person,” by which she meant someone with no well-formed ideas about music who would go to a festival with a lot of different bands and enjoy each one. I don’t know if that was meant as a compliment or not.
“But I think what you’re like is more important than what you like.”
This is absolutely true. Who cares what you like? Although, your personality may be judged on what you like. I know a lot of people think more kindly of me after they see my apartment, which is really homey.
I don’t mind disliking stuff at all. I don’t feel like it makes me a snob or closed-minded. It just means that I have preferences. What bugs me is when people don’t allow for differences in preference—they think that what they like best is the best and what they dislike is not good, as if their taste is good taste and other people’s taste is poor taste.
I agree with that Tom. Like what you like — don’t worry what other people say you should like.
I get particularly annoyed when people give their credentials for liking something, such as “well, I went to Parsons,” or “I went to Juilliard,” meaning, they obviously have a more informed opinion, so their opinion counts more.
High Fidelity lame???? I love that movie. Sheesh, you guys are so condescending.
That quote kind of epitomized the movie because here are three guys that all so wrapped up in what they like that become self-absorbed jerks while everyone around them has grown up. I see the movie as making the opposite point of the quote.
Yeah, I think Susan is the opposite of snob. She knows more about (many genres of) music than any of us yet never comes off as condescending. D, you might be right that it’s because she’s so positive. I think that’s one reason why I love the blog The Sartorialist so much, the guy only talks about (fashion) style he likes and never puts anyone down.
It’s a fine line, though. If somebody says “I like to wear black shoes even though my belt is brown,” and your guy says “I wear black shoes with black belts only,” there’s an inherent put-down, eh?
There isn’t an answer to the snob question, particularly online where everybody’s post sounds snobbish, even when not intended.
I try hard not to use names directly, or to point up my ironic humor with an emoticon (smiley face, or winky face).
But I often feel it’s my solemn duty to put down others who are being snobby (at least, to my perception). And I’m sure plenty of people feel the need to do it to me.
D,
You’re right that nobody’s opinion “counts” more, but certainly there are those who are more informed about something’s history/context and current dialogue concerning such and such thing, right? I mean, true, my opinion of the musical Wicked doesn’t “count” any less than yours but you definitely understand it better and why it’s more (or less) progressive and amazing that past musicals. Or am I wrong?
D,
Did you read that guys’ blog and get the impression he was being snobby? I don’t get that at all, I just see him as someone trying to help everyone improve their look/style always in a positive way.
You’re right and wrong about that. Because I might have more musical training that you, that means that my taste might be for more… esoteric musical things, “higher-brow,” so to speak. So therefore, my opinion of Wicked might actually be less valuable. Does that make sense?
Who is a better judge of “Wooly Bully,” a high-school kid, or Leonard Bernstein?
Who is a better judge of Mahler’s Ninth Symphony, a high-school kid, or Leonard Bernstein?
I usually find someone evokes credentials to validate their opinion because they’re… insecure about it, like Bill said.
No, I didn’t look at the blog — it was just an example. Anybody that actually chooses their clothes to match is a bit of a hero of mine.
Rusty, I think we’re fooling ourselves if we say that no one’s opinion counts more than another. That’s only if we’re voting.
Depends on what we mean by “counts more.” It’s all about context. If I’m deciding what to put on my walls in my home and my only concern is pleasing my taste, Rusty’s opinion is meaningless. But if I want to put stuff on my wall that people with training in design would consider correct, or current, or well-designed, then I should talk to someone like Rusty. That doesn’t mean that Rusty has better taste than me, just that he knows what people in the know mean when they say something is well-designed.
SG, that’s kinda what I was trying to say to D, that we do weigh different people’s opinions over others. I guess the question is what does “counts” mean? Counts to whom?
It’s also tricky because taste gets mixed up in there too. If I know that someone likes Arrested Development their opinions on comedy “count” (to me) more than someone who likes Everybody Loves Raymond.
Tom,
What do you mean by “in the know”?
I just didn’t like the two main characters in High Fidelity. The whole guy-afraid-of-committing is just lame.
I liked all the secondary characters, though.
And I love Arrested Development.
So, you rate somebody’s opinion higher because they agree with you?
Rusty,
People in the know would be people who pay attention to what makes something objectively well-designed. I am not in the know when it comes to design. All I know is what I like to look at and how I like to feel in my home. If I put my home together in the way that I like, there’s a good chance that I will do some things that designers would consider glaringly “wrong,” which is an opinion I’ll dismiss unless their suggestions are more appealing to me than what I put together on my own. On the other hand, if I’m trying to sell my home, I’ll be more likely to take the advice of someone with a sense of what is “good” design.
I’m not in the know in anything but yeast biology, really. I listen to a lot of music, but I don’t know much about what makes music good, I just know about what I like and don’t like. So if I like Radiohead and some musicologist comes along and tells me that Mozart is objectively better for this reason or that reason, I won’t argue. But I’ll only listen to Mozart if I like it and I won’t feel bad about listening to Radiohead instead if I don’t. And I’ll dismiss as a snob anyone who would judge me lacking in intelligence or culturedness or discernment by my preference for Radiohead. Also, I won’t prefer Mozart just to conform to what people think I should prefer.
What I wouldn’t mind is if the Mozart proponent suggested that I might prefer Mozart if I knew more about music, or if you told me that I might not like the picture of the Mnt. Timpanogos Temple that I have if I knew more about design. Those may or may not be true statements—it’s hard to tell the future—but I wouldn’t consider them condescending, I don’t think. But if you tell me that the picture is ugly or that I shouldn’t display it, I’ll say, “Screw you! It’s may be ugly to you artsy types, but I like it.”
For the record, I don’t feel strongly about any pictures of any temples, but I do prefer Radiohead to the Mozart I’ve heard.
Yeah, I guess I’m a bit of a snob when it comes to film, music, and lit. I don’t care if someone disagrees with me; in fact I love hearing a well-articulated contrarian opinion. So much of life is subjective, especially Art. I respond to experts and connoiseurs with a smart opinion in any field, even if they disagree with me. But I do admit to feeling some disdain for art “dabblers” who talk like art connoiseurs. To whit:
It annoys me when someone tells me how “totally awesome” The DaVinci Code was when it was the only book they’ve read in the past two years.
It annoys me when someone tells me how “amazingly deep” the movie Crash was when a deep night at the movies usually means Talledega Nights: The Legend of Ricky Bobby.
It annoys me when someone tells me how “profound and intriguing” LDS Church History is based on their reading of The Work and the Glory series.
Some people “get it”, others don’t. I’ll freely admit I don’t “get” some things. But I can relate to the Jack Black character from High Fidelity when he refused to sell a certain album at any price to a guy who didn’t “get it”, and then happily turned around and sold it to someone who did “get it” at a discount. Sue me.
D. (#24),
For me it’s not a question of whose opinion is “better,” it’s whose recommendations I give more weight to. If someone I know has similar tastes to mine and they tell me that artist X is worth checking out, I’ll be more likely to check out artist X than if my wife, for example, recommends the same artist. Of course, it can be fun to go out on a limb and follow an enthusiastic recommendation from someone with different or unknown tastes.
Tom,
Funny that you reference my T&S post (in which I call myself a snob) because that was one of the reasons I wrote this post. According to this definition I don’t think I’d still consider myself a snob, though. In it I’m not condescending to those who have other opinions (or have pictures of temples on their walls). DKL accused me of such but if you actually read my words you’ll see that he’s wrong, I only offered my opinion and was never distainful to others.
There is another post, however, in which I’m extremely snobby, but of course that was the purpose.
And I think Tom (#27) is exactly right.
I just read that whole T&S thread (which got past me when it aired last February). Rusty, you seem hung up on the snob thing — here you are again trying to get out of it. Why not just own up to it? Your choices make you cool, and others, not so cool. I’m cool with being…uncool.
Y’all do realize that High Fidelity was a book before it was a movie, right? The book is much better, even though I liked the movie fine.
Of course, Nick Hornby could write out the weather report, and I’d think it was great.
BTD Greg,
Have you read all of Hornby’s work?
I thought High Fidelity was exceptional. As good as the movie is, the book is still miles better. Grade: A
About A Boy was strong, but doesn’t reach High Fidelity’s heights. Grade: B+
How to be Good didn’t do it for me. Grade: C
I haven’t read anything by Hornby since then, though I bought A Long Way Down for my Mom. If I remember correctly, her take was that it was “just okay.”
I’ve read High Fidelity, About a Boy, How to Be Good, and A Long Way Down. I’d probably rank About a Boy slightly higher than High Fidelity, and I agree that How to Be Good isn’t very strong. I enjoyed it, and it has some interesting ideas, but it suffers mightily from a lack of plot to follow up on the premise.
I wrote a review of A Long Way Down here.
There’s also a really great children’s short story that he wrote for a collection called “Noisy Outlaws,” put out by McSweeney’s. I haven’t actually read it, but I heard Horby read it once on an NPR program (I think it was This American Life.) I’ve been meaning to pick up a copy of that to read to my kids.
I am a Dr Pepper snob!
There! I’ve said it. I feel much better now.
BTD Greg:
Enjoyed your review of A Long Way Down. I hope to get to it some day.
I think we all have the potential to be “snobs” when the subject is something we know a lot about. Like Matt said in comment #26, don’t tell me how great The DaVinci Code was when you haven’t read a book in a decade. Or any other similar genre.
I know a lot about art, history and textiles. I know didly about physics, astronomy or film noir- so I will have an opinion if someone starts to bag on Jackson Pollock for “just throwing paint”, but if you wanna talk about quarks and subatomic particulates, I’m gonna not have much to say, since I know less than nothing.